HDR was solved?
And Dolby Vision?
Requirement: let me play the video games I want to play that have anticheat
A stiff requirement
They run well on Linux, go complain to the devs who don’t allow them.
Discord screensharing is working on Wayland now? :O
Yes and yes. Been working in my install of Discord Canary for a few months now.
They pushed some sort of update to their Canary build which also includes stream audio.
Not from my recent experience.
If the average person can not use your OS, it is not ready. Period.
For example:
Windows - Open File Explorer > Add Network Drive > Find/plug it in > Enter creds > Bam. Ready to go and will automatically log you in at boot. Very nice, very intuitive UI.
Linux - Open Dolphin (or whatever) > Network > Add Network Folder/Find it > Enter creds > Does not automatically mount the drive when booting the computer back up > Must go into fstab to get it to automount > Stop, because that is ridiculous
In my own experience, I was able to get the hang of Windows with no one showing me how a computer ever worked, at the age of 10! Intuitive enough a child can do it.
On Linux, you have to read manuals/documentation, ask random (mostly rude) people on the internet, or give up because why the fuck would I want to go and enter 5 commands just to have something as simple as auto mount a network share? Not intuitive, therefore not easy to learn as you go.
I get it, Linux people like knowing how their computers operate, they like ensuring everything is working the way THEY want to, and that’s awesome! What’s not awesome is recommending Linux to the general populace and then getting upset at them for asking why they can’t do something or why don’t they just do these steps to do whatever it is they are having issues with. Then, you have a person who doesn’t even know what a terminal is confused as hell because they were told Linux is so much better than Windows.
Until we get a more intuitive (GUI focused) way of doing what I would consider normal computer tasks, it will not ever be ready. That’s just the way I see it.
I once wanted to change my mouse scrolling direction on Windows. In KDE it’s a toggle in the mouse settings and on Windows it’s some dubious registry editing (apparently). I think there are about as many things that are easier on Linux than on Windows as there are things that are easier on Windows than on Linux (assuming you’re using a modern distribution with a beginner-friendly, sensible configuration).
Meanwhile my experience with automounting network drives with dolphin is
Open Dolphin > Add Network Folder > Enter creds > Check automount box > done
I haven’t had to use the terminal for anything in years. There’s some things I do in the terminal, but that’s because I like it better, not because there isn’t an intuitive way to do it.
The reason guides tell people to use the terminal is because it’s the same across DEs, not because there aren’t DEs that make it more intuitive.
Would I throw a random non techy friend on Linux? No, because it’s not what they’re used to. If they had no computer experience at all though I absolutely would.
No automount check box on openSUSE, my Linux OS.
Also, we’re talking average users here, not some techy people who at least understand the differences between the OS and the file manager they use.
the average person doesnt know how to mount a drive on windows or even what that is or why you would want to, they just need to be able to open a browser
Very good point!
Example 2:
I need to drag this file into my browser to upload it to the website I’m visiting for whatever reason. I’m an average user that has only ever really needed a browser. My OS came with Firefox, but when I try to drag the file onto my browser window like I’ve always done, nothing happens. Is my computer broken?
No, it’s installed as a snap/flatpak that doesn’t have the “privileges” to do that, and I will never know that since I’m an average user who only needs a browser.
Your second example is a newish problem and Ubuntu specific. I had never had a problem with drag-and-drop and I migrated from Ubuntu before the snap thing.
You will always find an example of something that works “better” in one OS than other. Linux is not trying to be a windows drop-in replacement, some thing are gonna behave differently. Linux have some problems for an average user but a lot is just different UX design and others, especially hardware compatibility is because companies don’t care for it to work on Linux so the OS is always playing catch up.
A lot of “beginner friendly” distros are Ubuntu based though, so while not strictly requiring you to use snaps, it might install Firefox as a flatpak though, which doesn’t have the privileges to do drag and drop when I last used a flatpak based browser.
You can correct me if I am wrong of course, as I truly don’t know if it is still a thing or if I just installed the flatpak. I didn’t understand the limitations back then.
I wouldn’t know if this is still a thing. You are right about the integration problem of snaps/flatpak, it is specifically bad on Ubuntu because Ubuntu goes out of their way to shove snaps on you and hide the fact. Case in point Firefox, if you want a non snap version you have to jump through a lot of hoops, or at least was like this when a last installed Ubuntu for my wife laptop, it was the 22.04 I think.
In any case that is Ubuntu specific, but a shame none of the least because like you said, Ubuntu and derivatives are the more popular beginner friendly distros. but if I recall correctly some derivatives do remove snap so you don’t have to deal with it and its problems.
Flatseal helps with managing flatpak perms, but yeah it’s not at all intuitive
Right, but we are talking about the average user. One who only needs a browser. They wouldn’t even think about flatpak/snap/appimage, and would probably look at you like you are insane if you said those in the same sentence as “Your browser is a flatpak/snap/appimage, so it doesn’t have the permissions it needs to allow drag and drop”.
clicking the browse button to select the file is a hell of a lot easier than opening the file manager, navigating your way through your files to find the one specific one, then make both windows small so you can select a file in one, and drag it over to the other.
And look, its also an example of how you turn nothing into a big, complicated, multistep imaginary issue.
We were talking about average users. It’s most definitely not an imaginary issue, unfortunately. I have seen it with my own eyes. It’s how they have always brought their stuff into the browser, therefore, it is what they’ve always done. Yes, there is a browse option, but that isn’t always going to be the most intuitive way.
Such a high level idiot would fail regardless of the OS.
You cant make an idiot proof system, because humanity just produces better idiots.
When I was on help desk I often talked about meeting the client where they were at in their technical skill level. Sometimes their technical skill level was “Can you click the icon in the bottom left that looks like a window with four pains, and then click the settings icon it looks like a gear”. If mounting a file share was involved I just remoted in, none of the people that called could handle those instructions.
If my mother can’t tell the difference between Firefox and the OS, but can use Linux mint just fine, then so can the average user.
That’s great! I’m glad that it works so well for her!
That doesn’t mean the issues aren’t present though.
You are confusing the average user with the mids… average usage is equally easier to windows:
Open a file Edit a file Copy a file Open a browser
Most people i know does not care for anything else.
eh, depends on the situation.
I wanted to print a paper. Very simple, right? (cue collective sighs from all I.T.)On Windows it’s literally just “find printers on network” -> click mine -> print
on Linux id’ve had to input like 7 different commands depending on the distro and look through it.
I tried, got errors, got up, went to the family computer running windows 10, and printed from there.
There are situations where Linux is easier, but if you’re new to the UI and you Google something like “how to connect to WiFi Linux” (ie what a normal person would) you’ll get command line results that the person doesn’t understand and they’ll just give up
Printing is one of the few things that I find much easier and more reliable on Linux (and Mac) than on Windows. Automatic discovery of a printer has always worked for me. Both at home and at work. With printers from Brother, HP, Samsung, Epson and Oki.
On Windows however, the same printers only works for about 30% of print jobs. My family’s Samsung printer only printed from my arch and fedora workstation.
At my office recently our print server kicked the bucket and windows user couldn’t print anymore. Mac and Linux users (both use CUPS) had no issues talking to the printers directly.
Just anecdotal evidence ofc.
You have a solid point there, printing is generally a pain in the ass, also scanning… Thank god brother exists.
This is a little bit depressing but, as stupid as it sounds, most people in my job can’t even set up a printer anyway.
Both googling and the UI are imo just a small adapting hill. Maybe i have spent too much time on linux, but I think most linux GUIs are far more intuitive than window’s ones (Idk how mac feels like).
Googling is just about getting the correct keywords.EDIT: nope, you are right. I looked for “debian 12 wifi connect” and its gibberish for any unliterated.
Windows UI today feels like KDE plasma from the upside down, populeted with horrible and understedted decisions.
Think of setting an OS for your grandma, do you think that it would be easier for her to have a win10/11 over, idk, a debian+plasma5/6?
I set up my dad’s driverless network printer on linux the other day with ease. And it’s not even a newish printer. This problem was solved long ago
I mean, I was able to figure out how MS-DOS worked as a child just be flailing on the keyboard and reading the errors. It was “easy” because now I know it while Macintoshes may as well have been alien technology. A “mouse”?, moving windows?, you have to find programs and click on them instead of just typing?
You’re just used to Windows annoyances and not used to Linux annoyances, that’s all.
For example:
Installing and updating a program on Windows is a horror show compared to using a package manager. It expects average users to find, download and run executable files from the Internet and conditions them to approve elevation for anything that asks.
If Windows breaks, how do you troubleshoot it? Maybe Google knows, maybe rebooting fixes it, if not then possibly re-installing the entire OS. It’s so bad that if you work with Windows clients you probably already have an image of a Windows install because troubleshooting is so much of a pain it’s easier to just completely re-image the machine.
Don’t even get me started on how often Microsoft changes the layout of administration tools and system menus or their tendency to change the name of various system components for no logical reason.
I don’t think Linux is for everyone, but only because most everyone already has years of Windows experience and forgets all of the frustration and learning.
If you used Linux for just as long as you’ve used Windows, then editing fstab would seem as trivial a task as pinning an item to the
start bartaskbar, orlaunching a programstarting an app from thesystem traynotification areasystem tray.It’s kinda funny that as a seasoned Linux user, I never had to edit fstab for years. I just use Gnome Disks if I need automount or format a USB drive.
Yeah, ironic they chose dolphin to make that point since I literally just did it in dolphin ~a month ago and it has a checkbox to set up automount for you.
Not on all distros, which again, makes the point of how confusing Linux can be to average users… lol
Yeah, this one gets me, but you are exactly right with “years of experience”. Something goes wrong on my GFs MacBook or Windows PC and she just googles fixes, something goes wrong on her Steamdeck and she hands it to me “I don’t know how to get around the desktop mode”…GOOGLE IT, LEARN, YOU ARENT STUPID! sigh
I mean atleast in terms of the troubleshooting I’ve had to do it’s much easier on Windows. Sure it can be more finicky but if I have a problem 99% of the time I google it and find someone else having the same problem and worst case scenario atleast reinstalling Windows fixes the problem. When I gave Linux a try the amount of times I googled something and either found an out of date solution that didn’t work or was just told that that doesn’t work and you can’t do that was annoying enough that I gave up and went back to Windows. If Linux works for you that’s great but acting like the problems with Linux are just people not being used to it is wrong.
Linux has problems but he is not wrong that a lot of it is not being used to the OS. Finding solutions on the Internet is like a popularity context, of course there is much more of it for windows but even on Linux there is much more for big distros line Ubuntu than other smaller ones.
Now reinstalling windows is not a solution or a good argument, it is saying the problem cannot be fixed. When I used windows that was also my go to solution and very feel things I solved by googling, but I guess in part because I was not as tech savvy as I am now. But I tell you, when I started with Linux I could find solution for all problems that I have that had solutions, now a lot have changed so you do get that some things are outdated but it is just a matter of paying attention if the solution is old or new (side not rant, sites that do not put date on the articles are the worst).
Oh yeah, I naver had to reinstall a Linux machine, maybe I lucked out and didn’t royally fucked anything, but I could always solve problems with the OS without a reinstall. I guess because more easily you can find and know where things changed, like what config files you changed and you can always make a copy. The works case is like booting a live USB and rolling back the changes if the OS does not boot anymore.
I think it depends on what problems you’re talking about as well. A lot of the problems I faced with Linux was with programs not working or certain features not being supported. Where as with windows the problems tend to be more of bugs or weird behaviors from the os itself. Sure you can say reinstalling isn’t a good solution as it’s annoying to do but if it makes the problem go away it is a solution. Meanwhile on Linux if a program isn’t supported and isn’t popular enough to have people figure out how to make it work it just doesn’t work and there is no work around other than either trying to figure it out yourself or just using windows. Sure you can maybe argue that that’s an experience difference as if you had experience with getting programs to work the figure it out yourself part wouldn’t be hard but if anything I think that shows that it’s not just a different set of experience but also generally requires more experience to be proficient with Linux versus being proficient with Windows. Although that probably comes down more to what you consider as being proficient.
I only say that reinstalling is not solving a problem in the context of troubleshooting and finding a fix. But yes, is not a good solution because it is a pain. I did so much reinstalling in my windows years that one of the best things I did was to learn to create a separated partition to use for data because it make reinstalling so much easier (it was back in the days of winME and it was an event to do a reinstall, we would usually go to a friend’s house with the HD or the whole machine just to be able to backup everything).
About the software it is like I mentioned (maybe in other comment) with hardware compatibility. If it is a windows first software, usually Linux support is done in “best effort”, so always lags behind. This is specially true to closed source software as the community can’t even help. In any case, one sad reality is that programmers usually are terrible at building and packaging software for release, and that is not a Linux only problem. The famous dll hell on older windows were due to terrible packaging. That is why docker is so popular, so people don’t have to bother with packaging.
For FLOSS software what I usually see is in software not on the distro repos and it not being compatible with the distro because the devs don’t build for it. With closed source/binary-only what I see the most is broken dependencies because they build it wrong, targeting the OS libraries instead of bundling everything with the package.
Installing programs through Windows is now (thankfully) more align with Linux.
winget install firefox > see two different forms, one from Windows Store (ew) and the one provided and hosted by Mozilla > winget install mozilla.firefox > program installs
When updating: winget upgrade shows available updates > winget upgrade --all updates all the listed programs
Not as good as Linux of course, but much better than the old method you stated. That point I will give to you, as it is still not simple for the average user. “Terminal? WTF is that?”
I generally don’t have any annoyances with Windows because it does the things I need it to. I don’t find a UAC popups as annoying, because it is supposed to help prevent people from messing their computer up. The same could be said for the average person on Linux running random commands they found online because the thing they were expecting their computer to do isn’t doing the thing.
Windows has never broken on me, so I do not have a good rebuttal for that. I can at least say that when Linux has been borked before on my own hardware, I essentially had to put the ISO back on the single USB I owned at the time just to reinstall the entire OS again, because again, I didn’t know anything about Linux at this time. While in Windows, if the computer doesn’t boot properly 3 times, it brings up the Windows Recovery menu that has in plain English what available options you have to get your install back in at least some working manner. Again, you must keep the average person in mind. You and I are not what I would consider average in this context.
Again, point to you for the changes to UI that Micro$oft introduce. Very, very, very stupid UI/UX redesign choices, and without an alternate avenue at that! (there are a few programs that try to replace some of the Windows UI to get it back to how it should be, but of course that can introduce entirely new issues…)
I’ve been knuckle dragging my way into Linux more and more for 15 years. That’s why I have such a strong opinion on what they could do better for the average people. UI/GUI is a must have to get people to even consider ditching Windows. That’s without even taking into consideration that most of the programs I run personally do not even have a Linux alternative, and Wine/Bottles/Lutris/Heroic can not remedy without loads of understanding what you’re supposed to change here and there for that specific program. That is a real nightmare in my view.
You are mostly correct that I am very much more used to the “plug and play and it just works” of Windows, but having to go and edit some config file somewhere on my computer, instead of it just being an option in the settings or in the file manager itself, is just insane to a person who just wants to set it and forget it, like I can do with Windows.
Obviously, my time with Windows is not the average either, so I can see your points. I love Linux, what it stands for, and how it is community driven. I want it to be better so I can finally delete Windows forever.
I still use and support the users of Windows.
I do like winget (and chocolate), but the software repo doesn’t have everything and so people are still conditioned into going online and searching for executable file to run as admin.
I can’t count the amount of times that I’ve had to reinstall Windows because a user was tricked into downloading the wrong file and infected themselves (and the rest of the network).
I’d say that if you had a brand new person who needed to learn an OS then Windows and Linux are very close in difficulty as of today. I prefer to use Linux because I like the amount of information and control that is afforded to me
But, I play video games, use VR and deal with applications that only support Windows so I have a Windows drive handy.
Sure, mapping a (Samba) network drive is easy, and possible via GUI, in Windows, but have you tried to use NFS?
You need a Professional license ($100) first of all, and even then, you can only use NFSv3. The Powershell
commandcmdlet to mount is a trainwreck: >!New-PSDrive Z -PsProvider FileSystem -Root \10.40.1.1\export\isos -Persist!<. It’s so bad that Microsoft implemented an alias, ‘mount’, so you can pretend it’s a Linux command and it translates it into Powershell-ese.Now you gotta upgrade to Windows 11 by next year, use a Microsoft account (Yes, I know the workaround) and let your computer’s contents be indexed and fed to Microsoft in the name of integrating an AI feature that’s complete opaque to the user.
I’m not a frog that likes to be boiled, so I deal with Linux problems which seems quaint by comparison.
Honestly, I don’t know what the difference is other than maybe Samba is easier to work with Windows than NFS? I have never had to use NFS, so there is that.
Yeah, I try to avoid talking about terminal commands, because we are trying to view it from the perspective of an average user. I brought those commands up just to show awareness of similar-esque methods you brought up. Even winget is not resistant to chicanery of some bad actor/s.
As for Windows 11, I’ve been on it since late 2022. It hasn’t caused me any distress, but that’s truly only because of the extra precautions I took when installing it. The workaround you mentioned, alongside of using ChrisTitusTech’s Winutil setup to stop as much bullshit as possible. Again though, an average user wouldn’t even know what’s wrong with Windows to begin with.
The average person doesn’t use network drives or know what they are.
The real problem is if people can’t buy Linux laptops at Best Buy it literally doesn’t matter how usable or not it is because the average person doesn’t install an OS.
Why is automounting at boot without credentials a necessity and intuitive for you. No, I would expect it to mount exactly once and to require me to input username and password before I mount my porn collection so that my sister does not see it.
I don’t get why you claim that windows does this correctly and Linux does not. It would be the opposite for me.
Besides, the important point in this example is to actually mount the folder to do your job. In your example, both systems do this equally well with an equally well UI, before your automounting nonsense.
Because that’s how I want it to behave.
My network share is for file backups, and storage. I don’t want to enter my 10-15 long password to mount my NAS AND my 4 dedicated HDDs that reside in my desktop machine at every boot. That’s just ridiculous in my use case.
It’s this type of mindset why I feel the need to bring these issues up, because while you think that’s a great idea, I find that inconvenient. Vice versa for how you feel. Options are never a bad thing to have.
For example, if I have a program that is backing up files to a cloud, files that are being held on the NAS, I would have to remember to mount the NAS before that program can do it’s thing. So, every boot, you expect me to go into Dolphin and manually mount each and every drive that I may need? That does not make sense at all to me, personally. I’m glad it works that way for you though!
I work with windows for over 10 years, and use Linux daily for private stuff, including being a nerd and a gamer, and some side gigs for at least 8.
If something is weird, doesn’t work or breaks in Linux, I can usually find the culprit and help fast. It’s out there or it’s so obscure I need to puzzle it myself.
If something like that happens on windows, pray someone already had that issue or Microsoft decided to write an article about it, because nobody will help, and most search results point to bot responses about scf scannow, dism at best, and straight up reseting your system to factory defaults.
Point being, I like figuring out stuff in Linux, and I dread opaque bullshit Microsoft gets away with.
Even your network drive example, in my experience is a coin toss. So many variables, hidden settings, weird registry keys with no documentation. Yeah.
It’s simpler that all that. Turn on new computer, open browser, install steam, install games, play games. Anything more complex than that makes it unusable. People have zero time to deal with even a slight hiccup. It is annoying to watch as people are getting into steamOS on Steamdeck and every little thing is the end of the world. I have seen “oh, to get that one to run smooth you gotta set the FPS locked to 30” met with “nah, I ain’t got time for all that, I’ll play it on the Xbox”.
I don’t know what the fix is, outside cloning windows GUI and making an ultra safe and familiar entry Linux (the replies will be various lists of “just use x,y,z” and “get this one and technobabble the dilithium crystals into the frondulator” and that just pushes people away instantly…there has to be a tiktok-dumb entry level OS before any real migration happens.
There are entire distros that exist just to be a gaming desktop, they come with Steam installed and configured as a default so you just boot, login to Steam and install your games. All of the weird wine/proton stuff is handled automatically by Steam and if you have any problems, you can go to a single site (protondb.com) and see what settings you need to change.
The entire installation process is just as simple as Windows: click the drive you want to install on, choose a username and timezone, let the bar fill up and reboot.
Unless computer companies include Linux with their PC’s, it will never get general adoption.
No average user will follow instructions on how to boot Linux distro installer, especially when there are multiple steps needed to do so, such as on UEFI systems.
This is the real answer. Defaults are king. Most people don’t even bother to customize their settings on any platform, let alone change platforms.
Very few people go out of their way to install a different OS than the one a device came with. Many people don’t even realize you can.
Unless computer companies include Linux with their PC’s, it will never get general adoption.
Ok, which version of Linux should go onto mass devices for users?
I’m just going to grab some popcorn and stand over here…
Several companies sell computers that have Linux by default, System76’s Pop_OS! being one example.
I get that its not a big brand like Dell or Lenovo (who I think sells some Linux laptops? Could be wrong), but they’re out there and the distro is just gonna be dependent on the company selling the machines.
Kubuntu. It’s solid and similar enough to Windows UI-wise. Everyone should start there and later people can explore other options if they want.
Thanks to the likes of Proton, gaming on Linux is a hell of a lot better than it was ~5 years ago. You can actually do it now for the most part without to much fuss in my experience as long as you stick to Steam.
But once you leave Steam or get something brand new made by an EA type and have to lean on third party implementations of Proton or raw Wine to get things working it gets a lot worse.
But once you leave Steam […] it gets a lot worse
Heroic Games Launcher is pretty great for games from GOG and Epic. You can run games with Proton just fine.
Also, for folks out of the loop, let me explain what this entails. I installed Steam. I clicked install on a game. I clicked play in Steam. That was it. Proton isn’t some sort of thing you need to install or launch separately. It really does “just work”.
I’m able to play Deep Rock Galactic, Helldivers 2, and even Marvel Rivals online just fine. All of these are online multiplayer games, the types that generally seem to have the most trouble on Linux.
that is most definitely not the process. You have to explicitly go into Steam’s settings > Compatibility > “Enable Steam Play for all other titles” (what in the world, it’s called Steam Play, not Proton?) and then additionally select which Proton version you want. If you don’t know this, or don’t google it with the right keywords, you won’t understand why literally 90% of your library isn’t available (in my case it was 99% of my library, I think I only had 3 games available on linux natively). Also if you select the wrong Proton version some games won’t run, so you have to know that and switch it for those games only.
They’re likely using a gaming distro that has those settings enabled by default.
It isn’t perfectly seamless but enabling Steam Play or changing proton versions isn’t any more of an advanced task than verifying game files (something that Windows users are asked to do the moment that they have a problem).
It has come a long way from the days of manually creating wine environments and writing custom launch files.
If you can install Skyrim or Minecraft mods (not using Steam Workshop) then you’re sophisticated enough to game on gaming distros like Pop and Bazzite.
If you can use cheat engine without a guide and write your own mods then you’re ready for Arch.
I’m using CachyOS, I think it was set up out of the box.
Agreed, but I think it’s important to note that that isn’t because of a shortcoming of Linux, it’s because those companies are incentivized to support platforms that are more suitable for enabling massive profits, that’s what it seems like to me anyways.
“it’s important to note that [insert speculation]”
Um yeah that’s why I qualified it how i did 🙄
It’s not important to note something that is speculative.
“It’s important to note that YarHarSuperstar probably doesn’t even run Linux.”
See?
That’s your opinion and you have the right to express it. I disagree obviously, that’s why if you’ll pay very close attention to the words I used, it says “I think” before I said that.
You start by presenting it as a fact “keep in mind that it’s not because of X, but because of Y” then specify that’s it’s what you think but don’t provide any proof of, therefore there’s nothing important to note about what you said because you can’t back it with a source.
Getting something brand new from EA is painful on any platform
Can confirm, bought my son a FIFA game on pc that caused so much trouble and confusion on windows with their activation bullshit that I ended up buying him an xbox
deleted by creator
I’m still waiting for ThanosLinux that’s based on Ubuntu and only uses Snaps.
I lost half of my system and didn’t even have to rm -rf /
“Nvidia GPU working”
If the driver feels like it, lol.
I know NVIDIA gets a lot of shit, but I’ve honestly never encountered a problem after using nvidia + Linux for well over a decade. Sure, it can be picky when it comes to kernel version, but deciding on a kernel that works well for you and the rest of the system is part of initial setup of a proper system anyway.
Same here. I really don’t know what people do with their machines. I’ve had numerous nvidia gpus for ages without trouble (and litteraly decades of linux).
Never on laptops though, maybe that’s where problems arise.
Laptops exclusively for decades here, so nope, that’s not it.
Well, there goes my pet theory then.
If the gpu doesn’t burn
TBH, so many people I know don’t even know how to use Windows. Or even a browser. iOS or maybe Android is their PC, all through apps and feeds.
Like, if I explained laptop BIOS access for installing Linux, I’d lose them before I even started.
iOS or maybe Android is their PC, all through apps and feeds.
So they’re already using BSD and Linux.
Yes yes, Linux is a kernel, but it’s pretty obvious from context they mean desktop operating systems using the Linux kernel.
Linux in the meme’s context has little relation to Apple or Android, unfortunately.
wayland clipboard
Lol
Also kdenlive was still a pain for me to work with, but that was mostly because of its layout, shorcuts, and wording of some features.
Otherwise yeah, we’ve made it pretty far.
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/7236
The code is already there. Merged soon
“Linux is ready” - which distro? Fractional (sometimes even non-fractional) scaling is a mess. Most things that go beyond changing the wallpaper image need some command line stuff. Linux Desktop is for nerds and definitely not ready.
Yes it works fine if you know what you are doing but most people don’t. There is often not one thing of doing stuff, but hundreds. It already starts with the selection of a distro how would a “non-computer-person” decide on a distro. Just try them out? Install twenty different distros because reasons?
Unless resources are pooled into a single distro to polish it and make a defacto standard for ordinary people, homes and offices, Linux is not ready. If I need the freaking terminal because I want to see the day of the week next to the date it’s not ready.
You’re describing linux as it was when I switched. That was 30 years ago though. I don’t think you’re very familiar with current systems.
they’re very correct. Last month I tried out Zorin (which was recommended by one of the linux communities here) and sound didn’t even work properly. I plan on writing up a full doc for the linux community on the problems a staff software engineer had with a basic no-frills install (I’m trying to find a distro for my wife), but Linux is absolutely not ready for the general populace.
Non-computers people have been using Ubuntu for a decade. It’s far from perfect, but I’d refrain from basing judgement on a niche platform
Any system that doesn’t ship with the machine won’t be friendly to the end user.
And on pc, linux always has to work with (or against) hardware designed specifically for that other os. Including ignoring established standards, because why not. It’s honestly a miracle that it works as well as it does.then why is every linux advocate stating that all that matters is picking your distro? If the system needs to have the OS preinstalled then the distro doesn’t matter at all. Yet that still really isn’t the problem. Installing an OS from a flash drive (distros are just as easy to install as windows is and people have been installing windows fine from hard media for decades) is a different realm of troubleshooting than driver issues. Either linux is ready for people to start installing any distro on their gaming rig to migrate off of Windows or it’s not. And it clearly isn’t.
Because linux users are people familiar with computers. The general public can barely use windows, they can’t realistically install an operating system. If you think people can install windows, I’m afraid that’s quite unlikely.
You’re clearly surrounded by tech savvy users. Don’t confuse them with regular users. They have nothing in common.
Sound is almost always the sticking point for me in Linux installs.
But as I said in another comment, this doesn’t actually matter for the general populace because they don’t install OSes. The only situation where they’d use Linux is if they can buy a Linux PC ready to go, so config issues like this miss the forest for the trees.
sure, but then you’re alienating an entire userbase that can install an OS (which is just a flash drive and hitting a few keys during startup), but absolutely does not have the willpower to sit and figure out configuration on their new OS that absolutely does not work out of the box. Shit, I have enough to deal with in my daily life, I don’t want to be debugging driver issues. I haven’t had driver issues in windows or mac for over a decade, yet it’s the very first thing you encounter on a new distro install.
You could just said you havent used linux, muchacho.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted.
Lie: “Most things that go beyond changing the wallpaper image need some command line stuff.”
Incomprehensible: “There is often not one thing of doing stuff, but hundreds.”
“It already starts with the selection of a distro how would a “non-computer-person” decide on a distro. Just try them out? Install twenty different distros because reasons?”
Yeah, go install a distro, don’t like it , try another or go back to windows. We don’t really care but making crap up to be a gatekeeper? That’s a bit much
“Unless resources are pooled into a single distro to polish it and make a defacto standard for ordinary people, homes and offices”
Ohh so even if every option works fine, it’s not ready unless it’s windows…
Going back to look at his history, he’s just a ball of incoherant complaints.
I’m with ya buddy: Today, Linux is good enough for most purposes. If you try it and don’t like it, go buy a new PC for windows 11.
Linux is a kernel and not an operating system. My phone is runs Android, two of my root servers run debian bookworm, my living room media center runs Ubuntu, so I guess I have used Linux at least a little bit. But no distro I’ve seen (tried even more on some VMs) is really enough for me to suggest it to anybody that isn’t a “computer-person”.
I’m neck-deep in Linux and am responsible for getting developers at work up and running with it in servers, WSL and in 3 cases desktops.
I would suggest you’re just blind to the new user experience at this point. You’re focusing on a lot of stuff that works out of the box on most hardware these days. (but were kagey a year ago)
Bookworm on a late model laptop installs with 0 work. Onboard Nvidia is fine, sound is fine, steam is fine. Printer is fine.
No terminals required, Gui’s and Settings are fine.
Scaling (even fracitonal) is fine on KDE for the past few months.
You know who has had scaling issues for a decade? Windows.
Drag that notepad from your 4k screen over to your 1080 screen in windows an watch it blow up 6x, if you accidentally let go before it resizes it on the 1080, the top bar is off the screen. We’ve been dealing with that forever.
Servers are fine. VM’s are fine.
What non expert level things are you expecting a newb to open a terminal and do?
IMHO, The majority of the issues at this point are apps only supporting X when trying to run under wayland.
Do some testing. Put a non-technical Windows or Mac user on Linux for a week. Don’t explain anything to them, so they can figure it out on their own. Let me know how it goes.
My grandma is using it without problems. What now?
How about a few million school kids on chrome books. My 6YO is AOK.
Can you open a web browser? Done, Ship it.
My Parents and my Ex were fine on it 20 years ago. (given back then I HAD to do the setup)
The only problem they ever had was when my mother bought bargain bin CD full of shareware and I said no, that’s not going to work. She shrugged and I pointed her to some online solitare games.
Then they’re better off with a Chromebook or tablet. The only reason to be on a pc instead is to access all of the additional functions that would be a nightmare for them to figure out on Linux.
The only reason to be on a PC
The vast majority of people don’t need to be on a PC.
I’d argue that steam on Linux PC for casual gaming is pretty ready mainstream. Video drivers just work in anything that support non-free, Gui steam Install, the only thing you need to know is to check proton on each Windows Game you want to run. If they’d turn that on by default they’d be fine for light PC gaming.
I was pretty shocked the last few times I did a setup for someone and it needed nothing.
Hell, even NixOS works out of the box, that’s just nuts.
Linux has been ready since 2008. Literally not had a single real problem since Ubuntu 7.10 kept turning my monitor off while booting. Everything just works and has for 17 years now.
Every problem I see people have now (IRL not online) is ‘I don’t like the default theme’ tier nonsense.
The “works on my machine” certification sure seems like an amazing barometer for usability.
This is unfortunately very common when interacting with Linux users. I’ve had general issues on Linux that never happened on Windows, and you mostly just get replies saying it works for them and everything is dandy. That’s great! It’s not how I use MY computer though, so…
I get your point, and it is a fair criticism of how these discussions tend to go. That said, I think it goes both ways. I’ve had problems on Windows I didn’t have on Linux and/or Mac. None of them are perfect. They all have their unique problems.
I think the main difference is that I never see Windows users say that “Windows is just SO great, you have GOT to install it right nooooooowwww!” nor Mac users. But Linux users will gladly rant and rave about their distro to normal people who are just now hearing about Linux for the first time, then get upset when that person doesn’t even know how to use a terminal command.
But then again, I only have myself in my life that has any sort of interest in tech, so maybe there are and I just have never experienced it.
I’ve definitely heard Mac fans rant and rave about Mac being the best.
Works on Grampa’s machine and he can’t even figure out how how to unlock an iPhone. Which is ‘stare at it’ last I checked.
It might be nonsense to you, but that’s the first thing people see. No matter how amazing you business is, if your business card is a handwritten phone number on a piece of toilet paper, nobody will call.
Yup. If the theme is causing a mental hang up for laymen, then it’s an issue whether you agree with it or not.
But I suspect it’s more than that, and Linux stans are playing down the shitty UI.
Have you guys decided which distro is the ready one?
Not yet but I’d at least narrow it down to Arch and Fedora. I don’t think either of those is a bad choice.
At this point it should be obvious, btw
Obvious to whom exactly?
it may have been an obscure reference to the “btw I use Arch” meme
I got the joke!
Hint: the answer lies within the last 3 letters of their post. And is probably a joke.
Enlighten me.
Is it Zorin?
Everyone loves to shit on Zorin but I like it. Fedora is way too slow with updates for me. Mint is nice, but Zorin feels more cohesive with its UX.
Mint? Arch? Anything you like
Redstar?
Hanna Montana Linux
Yes sir
