• yarr@feddit.nl
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    55 minutes ago

    You know, I fucking hate Trump but I prefer to save my outrage about things he actually said and did. If you really wanna dunk on him, this ain’t the time. Look at the actual quote:

    “The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome.”

    I mean, I can’t really disagree with that. I’m fucking SICK of journalists converting everything into clickbait. You want some things to be angry about? Here’s some ACTUAL shit he did the same week:

    • October 16, 2019: During a meeting with congressional leaders about the situation in Syria, President Trump reportedly referred to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as a “third-grade politician,” leading to Pelosi and other Democratic leaders walking out of the meeting.

    • October 17, 2019: At a campaign rally in Dallas, Texas, President Trump criticized the ongoing impeachment inquiry, labeling it a “witch hunt” and attacking political opponents, which some viewed as inflammatory rhetoric.

    • October 18, 2019: President Trump announced a “permanent” ceasefire in Syria and lifted sanctions on Turkey. Critics argued that his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from northern Syria had enabled Turkish military actions against Kurdish forces, leading to regional instability.

    If you want to be annoyed about Trump, there’s plenty of actual shit he does. No need to make up shit just to get clicks. Fuck you lazy journalists!

    • Dasus@lemmy.world
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      42 minutes ago

      “The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome.”

      Yeah that’s not actually incorrect too badly. Well perhaps the “bound together” bit but like history for the massive systems, yeah, it is somewhat shared. Common law and whatnot. Although Italy definitely doesn’tuse common law anymore so Trump would be better of comparing US to brits in that sense.

      I wholeheartedly agree with you. Why promote inaccurate bullshit and ignore the actual shit he does?

      Oh wait, right, propaganda and shit “journalists”.

      Thanks for the info on those happenings, btw.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      31 minutes ago

      I mean, I can’t really disagree with that.

      You can’t? Just bookending two countries based on an elementary school student’s understanding of world history doesn’t bother you even a little bit? Nevermind the implicit neo-fascist context of the observation. It’s straight out of the Mussolini speech catalog to invoke Ancient Rome and Modern Italy in the same sentence, despite the only meaningful relationship between them being geographic. Might as well compare modern Macedonia to the Persian Empire or the Yucatan Peninsula to the old kingdom of the Mayans or to call Germany a nation of Huns.

      Even setting aside the fascist undertones, It’s pure shameless empty-headed pandering. Shit I’d expect out of Eric Adams or George Bush Jr, just being spouted as route pablum regardless of context or historical accuracy. Holding Trump up as uniquely annoying and stupid on this front is what’s obnoxious. Lots of politicians just say airhead nothingburgers like this regularly.

      If you want to be annoyed about Trump, there’s plenty of actual shit he does.

      You’re allowed to be annoyed from time to time by the neo-fascist ramblings of a racist dipshit, as a treat.

      • yarr@feddit.nl
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        6 minutes ago

        To keep this in context, this was a softball discussion with Trump from 2019 where he made some stupid throwaway comment about some supposed commonalities between the USA and Italy. If this annoys you THIS BADLY I don’t know what to say. Pick like any of the 50 things Trump did this week and they are more relevant than this trashy article.

        A wise man once told me “you must choose your battles” and for me, this is one of those times. This is such low stakes stuff compared to all the other crap he is doing. Don’t let some lazy journalist distract you with this crap today. Look at some ACTUAL nasty things going on, like Trump talking about reducing Social Security. Save your rage for when it matters. If you let every lazy article that misquotes Trump rustle your jimmies like this, it’s going to be wildly unproductive.

  • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
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    3 hours ago

    No one can be this stupid, surely?

    the quote has been deliberately misrepresented

    He actually said “The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome.”

    which could be inferred to be a reference to the large number of italian americans especially on the east coast and their effect on the US culture and the fact that much of the US political system is inspired by southern european governments. Ancient Rome had a senate too

    • Frostbeard@lemmy.world
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      24 minutes ago

      Also that the Roman legislation principles is the foundation for all modern countries with a court, parlament and executive power. The American fumbling fathers even went so far as to copy many parts of it. Hence the name senate for instance. And much of the architecture was inspired or copied from Palladio. So you get that neoclassical look that is the hallmark of DC

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        10 minutes ago

        the Roman legislation principles is the foundation for all modern counties with a court, parliament and executive power

        The Roman consul and senate are nominatively similar to modern parliaments. But their functions were radically different. You don’t have MPs and Senators obtaining their positions by leading armies of conquest abroad and bringing back slave captives to be tributed to the imperial core. You don’t have civil wars to decide the next President or a pagan faith that places the nation’s political leadership in the pantheon of occupied territories at sword point. You don’t have a single city’s local residents comprising the near-totality of the national body politic.

        The American fumbling fathers event went so far as to copy many parts of it.

        The iconography. Not the function. The actual political system was based on local colonial government organizations built on the back of the founding compacts of the first settlers. Local assemblies and mayoralities and governorships were features of European colonial rule, not Roman republicanism. State assembles and a national legislature/executives were features of Dutch protestant joint-stock company boards/executives not Roman dictatorships. Courts were based on the English Common-Law system not Roman Codes.

        FFS, early American politicians knew jack shit about Roman civilization. They were working off of pseudohistory largely invented during the era of Charlemagne and passed telephone-style through editorialized written and oral histories for the next 1400 years. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison looked at the French Catholic aesthetic, which sought to invoke Roman art and architecture, and cribbed it to appeal to his snobby know-nothing American Protestant peers. Also, a ton of Freemason wink-wink shit. That’s why they were putting pyramids and fasces on all their early works.

        And much of the architecture was inspired or copied from Palladio. So toy get that neoclassical look that is the hallmark of DC

        That’s absolutely true. Although the real neoclassical look of DC wasn’t really the focus of the city until the 19th century, because that shit was expensive to build and you needed Lincoln’s greenbacks and the industrial revolution machinery to complete big iconic construction projects.

        But it was all aesthetics, no substance. A bunch of ionic column toppers does not a Roman political system make.

  • uis@lemm.ee
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    5 hours ago

    Where did Pechenegs and Cumans go? Oh, right, that was another Putin.

  • cron@feddit.org
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    19 hours ago

    False, according to snopes:

    What Trump actually said, in his opening remarks during the press conference, was as follows: “The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years, to ancient Rome …”

    Edit: Even after reading this quote twice, I can’t really understand what Trump wanted to say.

    • dumbass@leminal.space
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      8 hours ago

      Wouldn’t it be funny if we found out the native Americans and Romans had a long standing friendship, much like them and the Vikings and that’s what he means.

      Obviously he’s just dribbling shit he thinks sounds smart, but it would be kinda funny.

    • pyre@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      he’s talking about how fascists are obsessed with Rome and think they share white heritage or whatever

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      He thinks he’s complimenting them by linking them to the Roman Empire. Also he’s probably completely forgotten that democracy was created by the Greeks.

    • AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee
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      14 hours ago

      America was founded on Roman ideals. I mean look at our capital building. Not only is it built in a Roman style there’s literally a mural of the founding fathers consulting with Roman gods.

      • Geobloke@lemm.ee
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        11 hours ago

        We’re all the descendants of when Hercules impregnated every female trojan as part of his 13th labour. You can read all about it in my book “The Da Vinci Code: Die Harder”

    • Meldrik@lemmy.wtfOPM
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      19 hours ago

      Edit: Even after reading this quote twice, I can’t really understand what Trump wanted to say.

      Can anyone ever?

        • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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          16 hours ago

          The Olympics did it better

          (More difficult than I imagined to find articles about it, there are plenty though from random sources)

      • Squorlple@lemmy.world
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        18 hours ago

        It doesn’t matter if what he says makes sense or is true; if he says it confidently and double downs on it, people will be convinced (or be coerced to agree)

      • CritFail@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        My take is that he sees himself as Julius Caesar reincarnate, overthrower of the Republic and the first emperor of the USA. If you read about the last days of the Republic there are so many historically rhyming events that with the current state of America, a repeat of history seems almost inevitable. A spate of military wins means Rome becomes very rich very quickly, disband rival military power which leads to pirates and banditry, widespread extremes of wealth and poverty, politicians riling the public up into a frenzy with populist talking points, using corrupt judiciary system to punish their political opponents, plebs forcing themselves in on senate discussions, Krassus was a mega oligarch banker who bankrolled politicians and held debts as favours to call on, the Bona Dea scandal, Clodius being unceremoniously taken to court for sneaking into a women-only festival, who is betrayed by another political rival Sicero only to then be equitted (jury was bribed), and the subsequent crossing of the Rubicon by Caesar, leading to insurrection, more political assassinations, and the fall of the Republic.

        I would say he is as spiteful and vengeful as Clodius (and feels wronged in the same way he did by the court cases against him), is as ambitious as Caesar, has Musk as his Krassus-figure backing him, craves attention and celebration of himself like Pompey, and thinks he is as important and catalytic to political change as the Gracchus brothers were.

        Trump aspires to be as awful and as “great” as the conniving ruling class of ancient Rome, because he us just as morally bankrupt as many of them.

        However all of these observations seem at odds with the way he presents himself - seemingly senile, lexicon of a five-year-old, and lacks any of the charisma and knack for timing that the great orators of the Senate had. In comparison, Trump as an isolated figure is but a skidmark compared to the intellectual brilliance of the Roman elite.

      • dutchkimble@lemy.lol
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        16 hours ago

        Alright, you might wanna sit down for this. Hate to be the one breaking it to you, buuut the Internet is not always a rational place…

    • ShadowRam@fedia.io
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      19 hours ago

      Weird,

      Trump already says a bunch of stupid shit on his own.

      Not sure why someone would make the OP and make shit up.

    • hopesdead@startrek.website
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      17 hours ago

      I think he meant culture and politics has been similar since the time of ancient Rome, maybe thinking the United States existed that long ago.

      It did not.

      • AEsheron@lemmy.world
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        17 hours ago

        To play the ultimate Devil’s Advocate, the Romans did leave a lasting cultural impact on Brittain. So in a way we have a cultural bloodline that is distantly connected to Rome.

        • samus12345@lemm.ee
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          17 hours ago

          Ridiculous, I suppose next you’ll say that the US government has a senate that meets in a columned building!

        • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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          15 hours ago

          The American system is a direct descendant of Enlightenment Classicism, which includes a respect for the Classical Republics. Athens, Rome, Thebes, etc.

          American federal government and arguably as a result liberalism is quite literally an imitation and attempt at modernization of the Roman Republic, which is, among other things, why we adopted the eagle as a national symbol and have a fasces in the House of Representatives.

        • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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          19 hours ago

          It doesn’t look like something that he wrote himself, and it does make sense. Wikipedia even has an article about it.

          Trump says a lot of nonsense, but something isn’t nonsense just because Trump said it.

  • formergijoe@lemmy.world
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    17 hours ago

    This makes sense. How else could the US take over the British airports during the revolutionary war without our history with Rome?

    • doctorskull@lemmy.world
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      17 hours ago

      He’s fucking retarded.

      2024 and this guy is using “retarded” as a slur and not being downvoted? Lame.

      • uis@lemm.ee
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        5 hours ago

        2024 and this guy is using “lame” as a slur and being downvoted by ponies. As expected.

          • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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            16 hours ago

            Just don’t have opinions when someone else might have a different one

            (But only if you are being nice)

            Stop external communication of internal perspectives you lefty!

      • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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        16 hours ago

        Did u just ableistize

        You can’t say “lame”, six or seven people associate it with disabilities so it’s offensive

        (JK, “retarded” is dumb to say though cuz it’s like 60 or 70 percent of people who associate it with disabilities)

        Yeah that’s my tangent, my 2024 guide for being a normal human:

        • retard bad
        • lame reclaimed (or unlikely to remind 98% of people of handicaps)

        Open to other opinions!

        • toynbee@lemmy.world
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          14 hours ago

          A while ago, I lived in a house with back steps that were not built in accord with safety regulations. My then dog (goddamn was she the best, smelliest dog ever) fell off the side and hurt her leg. It was late at night, so we took her to an emergency vet, where they did see and help her; but while we were in the waiting room, we saw a sign saying “lame dogs will be seen last.” I still don’t understand how they determined which dogs were cool.

          Anyway, years later, I fell off the front porch, which also wasn’t up to spec. I broke my ankle and it healed improperly. Guess I’m the lame one now.

          • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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            13 hours ago

            **[1]

            Sorry about you & your doggie. Dude it healed wrong?! That SUCKS! Why would it do that, dumb ankle. How bad is it? You coping OK?


            **[1] this is where “LOL” was gonna go since the cool dog story was funny but needed to move the latter feelings first

            • toynbee@lemmy.world
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              11 hours ago

              Thank you for your response and empathy. I’ve actually mentioned it several times in my post history, so I apologize in advance to any future lemmings who care to review my comments. That said:

              It’s bad. I can’t comfortably shower or check my mail. However, it could be worse. I can still stand and walk and, if I’m willing to endure the discomfort, go through fairly normal tasks like the above. I have gained a lot of weight since it happened and my body is an embarrassment, but oh well.

              I’m coping. It’s been almost three years. I don’t really have any choice; I can largely function like a normal person, it just hurts, but it’s not impossible. Thank you for asking, it’s very kind of you.

              I do miss my dog. She was a good dog.

              edit: I appreciate your use of footnotes.

              • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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                9 hours ago

                Unbelievable your house would turn against you two like that :(

                Sorry to hear about the pain and all. Well sounds like we agree - onward, friend! 💪

                • toynbee@lemmy.world
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                  9 hours ago

                  Your attitude and, I have to assume, approach to life are admirable. Hopefully you can conquer whatever challenge you face next and enjoy doing so.

                  edit: is/are