What’s funny about this is there’s never been anything edgy about Jerry Seinfeld’s standup act. And as far as Seinfeld goes he was barely involved in the writing. That was all Larry David and other talented writers. Of 180 episodes Jerry Seinfeld had 18 writing credits and all of them were shared with Larry David. Of those 18 credits 5 were in the first season which is undeniably the show’s weakest and most forgettable. Jerry was always just the name. Larry was the talent.
I guess that’s probably why Larry David just wrapped the final season of Curb this year while never once complaining about “not being allowed to do comedy” anymore like Jerry is. Turns out, you’ve always been allowed to do whatever comedy you like, you just have to actually be funny.
It’s also funny because It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is still airing too, and that is massively more edgy than anything seinfeld ever did.
I think that the problem is that jerry want to be edgy and still be considered the good guy. Which is not how Curb, IASIP or even the Seinfeld tv show ever was. They always were presented as bad/flawed people doing bad stuff. You 100% can still do that type of comedy. But you can’t do comedy where the characters are supposed to be good but do bad stuff
It’s also funny because It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is still airing too, and that is massively more edgy than anything seinfeld ever did.
And that’s always been my argument when it comes to this particular dead horse. I don’t think any jokes are off the table, you just really have to make whatever discomfort you’re summoning be worth the punchline. The edgier something is the more it has to be funny to compensate, the point of offensive humor is to be funny not to offend, right? This has to be common sense. I don’t get how it flies over the head of so many people.
There are a lot of people who seem to think offending is all it takes. I think Sam McMurray’s character “Glen” in Raising Arizona, who is constantly telling “jokes” about Polish people being stupid that none of the other characters find funny, is a perfect example of the type.
Exactly. Either risk it and have a big payoff, or insert a point behind it. Make the audience think after they laugh, or search within themselves why that was funny, or the context behind the joke.
Or if you go for the edgy or dark joke, and get called out - you rolled that die, live with it. Crying “it’s just a joke” or “comedy is cancelled” after your bit failed to land is hacky
Same thing with folks who say they are in to the ‘brutal honesty’ thing, it should be about the honesty…essentially it’s about the earnestness of the thing instead of just using comedy/etc as cover to be an asshole (like Chappel).
Man that whole ‘being funny’ thing sounds really hard
Curb Your Enthusiasm is one of the best & funniest shows I’ve ever seen
It’s just years of “what’s the deal with ______________” jokes, and 4 of the shittiest narcissistic people ever.
Are you talking about Seinfeld the show? The show is amazing. Jerry Seinfeld just isn’t funny as a comedian.
Yes, I’m talking about the show. I didn’t find it amazing, and felt that all of them going to jail in the end was a bit overdue
Yeah it was absolutely Larry David’s show. But Seinfeld is a genius stand-up comedian in his own right.
He’s categorically wrong on his conclusion here.
I’ve seen his stand up. It’s nothing special.
So much of his standup depends on making initial observations of seemingly absurd things and then not putting a single ounce of thought or research into them to determine if they’re actually absurd. It’s low-hanging fruit for tipsy people at a comedy club.
He was utterly, perfectly cast as a supposed straight-man who’s just as callously thoughtless as his bizarre friends but with a veneer of “insight”. It was brilliant. I wonder if he quite realized why.
Whats the deaaaal with airline food?
seinfeld pilot
You know, why we’re here? [he means: here in the “Comedy club”] To be out, this is out…and out is one of the single most enjoyable experiences of life. People…did you ever hear people talking about “We should go out”? This is what they’re talking about…this whole thing, we’re all out now, no one is home. Not one person here is home, we’re all out! There are people tryin’ to find us, they don’t know where we are. [imitates one of these people “tryin’ to find us”; pretends his hand is a phone] “Did you ring?, I can’t find him.” [imitates other person on phone] “Where did he go?” [the first person again] “He didn’t tell me where he was going”. He must have gone out. You wanna go out: you get ready, you pick out the clothes, right? You take the shower, you get all ready, get the cash, get your friends, the car, the spot, the reservation…There you’re staring around, whatta you do? You go: “We gotta be getting back”. Once you’re out, you wanna get back! You wanna go to sleep, you wanna get up, you wanna go out again tomorrow, right? Where ever you are in life, it’s my feeling, you’ve gotta go.
seinfeld final episode:
It seems like whenever these office people call you in for a meeting, the whole thing is about the sitting down. I would really like to sit down with you. I think we need to sit down and talk. Why don’t you come in, and we’ll sit down. Well, sometimes the sitting down doesn’t work. People get mad at the sitting.You know, we’ve been sitting here for I don’t know how long. How much longer are we just going to sit here? I’ll tell you what I think we should do. I think we should all sleep on it. Maybe we’re not getting down low enough. Maybe if we all lie down, then our brains will work.
…what particularly about these bits is either edgy or genius?
The last office bit is so true specially on Fridays when people have the wonderful idea of pushing to prod, instead of waiting to Monday with all hands available and everything triple checked
You don’t have to find it funny. Did people laugh at it how and when he said it? If so, it was funny. Too late to cast your vote now. That’s how comedy works.
I’m just saying that its pretty funny in and of itself that Jerry Seinfeld is like “you can’t say anything in comedy any more” and all his bits are about losing a sock in the washing machine
Yeah he’s obviously wrong about that and lives in N elite bubble. He’s colored by how he saw the left treat Dave Chappelle and Louie CK, for example. But he also saw how the right treated Lenny Bruce and Dice Clay, for example. He should know better that nobody on the left is actually wanting to put comedians in jail for their jokes, that’s exclusively the province of the right.
Also, this is the daily mail. It’s probably not even real quote.
Unfortunately for Chapelle and Seinfeld, James Acaster did that bit that absolutely destroyed their whining.
And Unfortunately for Louis CK, his sex-pest-intimidation is just too memorable.
Why don’t we mention Michael Richards (Cosmo Kramer) while we’re at it.
Maybe the issue isn’t “you can’t say anything nowadays” and instead it’s “you can’t say the n-word, the t-slur, and look-its-my-dick-im-jacking-off-at-you nowadays”
As for Andrew Dice Clay, the man’s schtick was just racism, sexism and pretending to light a cigarette. it was hardly one for the ages.
And then as for Bruce, yes, him being arrested for saying cocksucker is the only legitimate example of being cancelled for comedy on the list - but also he impersonated a priest and stole donations meant for a leprosy charity, which you’d be cancelled for in 200BC as well as 2024 AD
I don’t think anyone was “cancelled.” That’s a righty-wing bogeyman word with no definition.
Nothing any of these comedians said or did takes away the fact that when they deliver their acts, they bring down the house. They connect with the crowd and the crowd laughs, involuntarily! The crowds are voting with their laughs and any one of these legendary comedians on an average day can play any room and get laughs. You’d be lucky to witness it. Laughing is involuntary. If the crowd is laughing, can’t say the act isn’t funny, that’s some election denying bullshit. You certainly won’t find it funny if you don’t realize it’s an act. Punchlines aren’t true statements of the comedian’s personal point of view or opinion, they are an act. Sometimes the joke is that the thing was even said in the first place.
At any rate, all the examples I gave are real things that happened. The three most justifiable shit storms, against Kramer, CK, and to a lesser extent Chappelle, are examples I gave of the left coming after a comedian.
Bruce, you agree, is as an example of the right coming after a comedian. You are wrong to lump Dice Clay in with CK and Kramer; Dice Clay cleared the way for comedy as an artform, and, again, the crowds laughed.
A better example I’m sure you’ll also agree is not justified is South Africa, where the political right simply banned stand up comedy as a practice. That’s the usual example, too, in far right countries: no laughing allowed!
Man, if you can’t find the humor in these people’s acts, not just Seinfeld, but also Dice Clay, or whatever other dirty or sexist or whatever fart jokes you think you’re too whatever to laugh at, all these comics would laugh at your discomfort, which is with one person standing in front of a room full of people and talking for an hour straight. Anyone can buy a ticket. How provocative could it possibly get before they get booed off stage? You should go to a Chappelle set and turn the crowd against him; just explain why he’s not funny like you do online. Should be no problem for you.
Without the show and its success, he wouldn’t be a well known Stand up today. He’s still surfing that wave.
He was a well-known comic before he did the show. Perhaps not a household name but very few comics ever are. He had already been on Carson like a dozen times, as a stand up in the 80s that’s like the height of fame. You might even say that Seinfeld’s TV show elevated him to a status that no comic had ever before achieved.
Certainly a status he couldn’t have achieved on his own merits. 95% of the people going to his shows go there because they know him through the TV show, not because they’re interested in his stand-up. Nowadays he’s mostly famous for being famous. But a douche, too.
Weird how these woke kids keep killing comedy while still being the best comedians, and it’s always the ones leaning on their 30+ year old sets that think it’s a problem.
What is the deal with airline food, anyway?
What’s the deal with time passing? It just happens! You don’t want it to, but it does. One day you’re riding high, one hand on Larry David’s coattails and the other up some high school girl’s skirt. You’re thinking, “I’m gonna be on top forever. Everyone loves me now and it’s always gonna be this way.” Then the next day you’re complaining about woke on a drive time radio show with Kid Rock. What’s his deal anyway? He’s not a rock, or even a kid. He’s a man. He should be called Man Man.
You know who had a 30 year old set that was still awesome and hysterical to the very end? The Amazing Jonathan.
I got to see him in Vegas probably a few years before he died, he was doing shows in what amounted to a fancy conference room somewhere. I was the person called up to the stage, and even though I knew every single thing he was going to say and do, it was still just funny. I got to look him right in the eyes up close, and it was clear that he knew he was doing the same set he’s done forever, in a conference room. and it seemed like we both knew that “WTF am I doing here?” added a whole other layer of funny to the whole thing.
Maybe I was reading too much into it. Maybe it was just the methamphetamine.
while still being the best comedians
can you recommend some?
If you haven’t heard it: Bill Burr Philadelphia Rant.
Look it up on YouTube. It’s unfortunately a crappy video, but the audio is straight gold. For 30 whole minutes it’s just Burr trashing the audience and Philadelphia and its perfection. Better than any stand up of the last few years because it’s organic and in the moment.
Bo Burnham is also fantastic if you want something introspective at the same time. Inside, by Bo Burnham was a critical piece of Covid media.
Bill Burr Philly
That was 2006.
Burr kills but is not new, nor is he a ‘kid’.
I have a favorite link that for “full stand up comedy special” on YouTube and new ones pop up like every day. Listen to it on my commute, shower, dishes, etc.
The deal with airline food has nothing to do with the food, but everything to deal with the dry, low preassure air in an airplane lowering the sensitivity of our tastebuds, making thw food taste bland.
It’s not low pressure. The cabin is pressurized to 5k feet.
Are you saying that people that live in Colorado or other high altitude locations have trouble enjoying their food because of “low pressure”? The answer is no.
The reason airline food sucks is because it’s highly processed and filled with preservatives to keep it “fresh”. In other words the food sucks.
And the issue with the joke is that it’s painfully obvious that serving meals to thousands of passengers on a cramped metal tube that’s sensitive to weight would result in something less than gourmet. THAT’S the deal with airline food. As an offhand comment from a sympathetic stranger sharing your experience, it’s mildly amusing. As performed humor, it’s lazy and not funny.
I don’t know if Jerry specifically ever did airline food (but he probably did). Still, it describes pretty much the entirety of his stand-up.
I think it just goes to show how out of touch he is.
Reality is airlines stopped serving food a long time ago outside of international travel, which means most young people today haven’t even experienced this before.
It’s hard to be funny when you don’t even relate to your audience. Thing is Seinfeld was “funny” in the 90s when his comedy was more relevant.
Since then the world has changed dramatically and his comedy has stayed stagnant. He’s behind the times. It’s not that comedy in general is dead. It’s just his view that died because the world changed and he did not change with it. Happens to most comedians.
Maron is still going strong, thankfully. I like Seinfeld’s Netflix show, but haven’t seen any stand up of his for years… I could see it being rough.
It is absolutely low preassure compared to sea level.
Also, note that I said it was a combination with very dry air.
Of course. But it isn’t enough to make any difference on your sense of taste.
At least not big enough to justify naming the entire reason for why airline food sucks.
The food sucks because the food sucks. There is no other reason. You aren’t going to convince anyone otherwise.
The food sucks because the food sucks. There is no other reason.
This is absolutely a part of it, but you are simplifying it too much, here is a BBC article about the issue:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150112-why-in-flight-food-tastes-weird
As a comedian you either die funny or live long enough to become a reactionary shit bag.
I don’t think he was ever funny. Larry David may have been funny, and Seinfeld was fortunate enough to be involved with the show, but Jerry himself has always been a poor comedian and a tool.
I think Seinfeld was pretty funny in the 80s. His style of observational comedy was fresh back then though. Then there were a million Seinfeld copycats and there wasn’t anything special about him anymore.
The same thing happened with Carlin. So he kept reinventing himself and updating his comedy with the times and that’s why people loved him until the day he died.
Carlin got better as he got older. His shtick was always tight fast well rehearsed dense sets but he went from mostly irreverent to actually saying something. And he was still able to be so funny while clearly getting so angry.
Carlin was an artist. He could tread that line between offense and enlightening. Like I could sometimes feel my hackles go up watching him, even back in the 90s, but like you said, you really got the feeling like he was trying to communicate something real and important to him. That goes a long way to buying good will and keeping people listening, even as they’re feeling slightly defensive.
I guess that’s authenticity.
“The show was great, hilarious even, until Jerry opened his mouth and said something.” - Me imitating Seinfeld
But seriously. I loved a few of the kooky characters, and would always stop channel surfing on a Kramer scene. But Jerry would always say something dumb and I’d move on.
Ah yes, RIP Cosmo Kramer Michael Richards’ career & reputation ever since his incident with the heckler
Well deserved.
He peaked at Bee movie
It was the supporting cast that even gave that movie a chance at being funny. Mathew Broderick, Rip Torn and Patrick Warburton did a lot of heavy lifting.
Absolutely. He always came off as an arrogant prick and none of his shit was funny to me. But I might have missed many a point because I’m not from the USA.
I never liked the show because of him specifically. It’s my understanding that they’re all supposed to be bad people, but this is the same case with Always Sunny and I find the gang to be very likable. I didn’t at first, but they grew on me once I realized they were supposed to be degenerates and sociopaths. But with Seinfeld I have never been able to get over the hump.
Honestly, there are a few memorable episodes but most of it was pretty lame IMO.
The only reason I watched Seinfeld is it was what was on
The episode where George and Jerry pretend to be the names printed on a limo driver’s placard in order to get a free ride from the airport and end up getting driven to a white supremacist rally was the peak of the show, but after watching Curb Your Enthusiasm it’s pretty obvious whose sense of humor produced that one.
The show was hilarious.
It’s just that Seinfeld was the least funny cast member in literally every episode.
He was the least funny and interesting character in “Seinfeld”, too. Even most side characters like George’s parents added more than him.
Seinfeld was hilarious back in his day.
Seinfeld would have had to die in adolescence for that do happen.
What does reactionary mean other than just being an insult?
It means he lacks the ability to reinvent his comedy to fit the times. Instead he just complains.
We all need to continue to reinvent ourselves over time. Things change. We need to retool for the times ahead. Reality is Seinfeld doesn’t need to because he already made his money.
So instead of him getting back on the horse he just sits back and complains like the out of touch old turd that he is. He sucks but just can’t accept it or admit it. It’s easier to whine.
He is a has-been and never will be again.
I agree he’s not funny, but that’s not really how most people use reactionary
“Reactionary” means regressive conservative/anti-progressive. It originates from, as much political terminology on the regressive vs. progressive divide does (including the terms “left”, “right”, and “conservative” themselves), the French revolution, where people who favored opposing the revolution (i.e. reacting to the revolution) were called “réactionnaires” in French.
Here’s the first known usage of the word in English, from a 1799 English translation of Lazare Carnot’s letter on the Conspiracy of the 18th Fructador.
Interesting, but I often see it used not for people who oppose any form of change, but for people who oppose a specific change. And it’s intended to be more slanderous than conservative.
Reactionary can be seen as a more extreme version of conservatism.
Conservatives want to keep things as they are and oppose change.
Reactionaries want to turn back to some previous, supposedly better state.
He’s gone full Bill Maher.
“Is my comedy stale and out of touch? No, it is the audience who are wrong.”
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I listened to much of the interview on the radio. He touched on a lot of good points and then came to the absolutely wrong conclusion. He talked about how many writing rooms are “writing by committee” where jokes will go through a review by many different groups. If this is truly the case (I don’t know) that is not an issue if the “far left mob” but rather the enshitification of comedy due to corporations and Wall Street bankrolling these productions wanting to ensure return on investment. This kills creativity by reducing risks. Topical comedy is a risky medium by default.
Also, shout out to Rob McElhenney for his sarcastic one word response. In Jerry’s imagined world, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia can’t exist.
Had to look up said response and I agree. For anyone else looking, here’s a screenshot of what I found:
But see, he wants it to be funny because he thinks making fun of homeless people is funny. It would instead be funny because of how fucking stupid Kramer is. That’s really the big turn in recent comedy: laughing at bad characters doing shitty things (and usually getting their comeuppance) instead of laughing at shitty things happening to people.
But the thing is… writing by committee has always been the norm- including for Seinfeld, which makes me wonder how much he was actually involved in the writing process.
The very idea of a writer’s room is writing by committee.
I got the sense he meant more that it would go up through business-side committees to double check the work and make sure it wasn’t inappropriate. If that was the case that again would be an indication of corporations being risk adverse.
That’s also always been the case.
It’s stupid for Jerry Seinfeld, of all people, to claim that executives don’t constantly meddle in shows to make sure audiences don’t get pissed off.
people seeing issues brought about by capitalism and concluding that the people who are fighting against capitalism are the REAL problem, a tale as old as time.
You really think the average Barbie-watching lefty can be equated to the communism bordering Lemmy dweller? Please, just because they’re not on the right doesn’t make them the same.
The first season of its always Sunny would definitely be canceled (if debuted) today
The first season doesn’t even come close to the worst things the gang did.
It wouldnt even make it to season 2 though
No, no it wouldn’t.
I see platforms cancelling or existing episodes and seasons all the time, there’s is still up
That’s because it already has a huge following. I’m saying if that season one debuted now it would. Just like tropic Thunder hasn’t been pulled but I doubt they’d let it today
edit: so all the downvotes imply you all say that a white guy in black face can air today? yea no way, y’all trippin hive mind shit. I’d love to see someone try lol
Good comedy is made for the time period its in!?! WHO WOULDA THOUGHT?
Thats the point, what you can air has absolutely changed. yet downvotes from stating that fact
And what could air when Tropic Thunder came out had absolutely changed from the 10 years before that, the times change, who knew
That’s always the last bastion of people arguing against it happening. Throwing up their hands and saying “things change”.
Wow, what an insightful addition to the discussion you absolute dingus. Nobody is denying that things change, what is argued is that the overly woke mindset has a negative effect on said evolution. Maybe next year when your favourite orange man gets back in the office, we’ll just throw up our hands and say that things change without asking the question why we got there, sound like a plan to you? Or do you think that sometimes it might be a good idea to reflect on why we end up where we do?
A dislike for conservatism does not mean that every change is progress, you know.
I really don’t know, you may be right. I feel like that whole season was them tackling tough to swallow social issues by making themselves idiots at best or bigots at worst, but the satire and irony was clear in their intent to expose as as an outdated way to think.
Too
nuanced-compicated and fancy for today’s viewing public.Soon it will all be farts and nutshots.
Tune in to Ow My Balls
Yeah, things were so much less politically correct in- *checks notes* 2005.
What the fuck are you talking about?
People could still laugh at themselves, and people still recognized absurdity for what it was.
People still laugh at themselves now. People still recognize absurdity for what it is. Go watch a show like Abbott Elementary.
I have seen that show, and it was good, but alao focused to meet network standards that evolve glacially.
Its not standup.
Sorry… you think shows in 2005 weren’t focused? Really? I don’t know what golden age of comedy you think 2005 was, but it wasn’t one.
Chapelle Show, Its Always Sunny, several others from this very thread. Yes golden comedy was happening in 2005.
Even the Bill Burr Philly Rant is from 2006.
Good shit.
Edit: and Tough Crowd had just ended. Sadly.
Yeah that’s why edgy comedian like Jimmy Carr has released 2 Netflix specials in last 3 years. And he, unlike Seinfeld, isn’t whining about ‘kids these days’.
There’s a shit ton of good young comedians. Jerry is an old man telling kids to get off his lawn.
Jerry is an old man telling kids to get off his lawn.
i think i crossed the middle aged boundary because my head is filled with “those damn kids!” thoughts and i hoping that the fact that i’m still a stereotypical broke ass millennial that will never be able to afford his own lawn will help keep me young somehow.
You should read up on juvenoia (sp?). Vsauce did a great video on the topic. Helps keep you grounded when you struggle with the thoughts of are the kids wrong or am I just out of touch. Spoiler, they are no more wrong than we ever were as kids, and yes we are out of touch with the youth. But it’s all ok as long as you accept that there can be things you don’t understand or that just aren’t meant for you.
That’s a great way to look at it.
Also remember, you’re the oldest guy you saw when you were the kids age.now i have a new word that accurately describes the impetus for the tik tok ban; thanks for that.
Yeah, but Jimmy Carr’s greatest achievement is beating Father Time by transforming himself into a plastic vampire. Jerry Seinfeld’s greatest achievement is making a movie where a bumblebee cucks Kronk.
I love Kronk, but immortality > bee sex.
Jerry’s greatest achievement is his billion dollar bank account…
Nah, that came from the TV show Seinfeld, which is arguably Larry David’s greatest achievement.
Who’s bank account is it in LoL? Cuz at the end of the day, dude’s got a billion dollars and that’s a helluva accomplishment by anyone’s standards.
His latest special was incredible.
Or Chapelle
But in chapelle’s case, chapelle ruined comedy
Chapelle’s special’s have been very controversial. I think people protested about one of them, kind of proving Seinfeld’s point.
Please, tell me more about how Chappelle was canceled and didn’t get like 3 standups in a row on streaming playforms.
This “somebody didn’t like it” = “cAnCeLeD” narrative is fucking tiring. I didn’t watch “the one” or any of them - because I just don’t fucking care about someone who hasn’t done anything for 20 years, didn’t think about it all either way past “I heard it exists” - and for 6 months I couldn’t tell anyone I didn’t watch it because I’d be subjected to a 30 minute/5 paragraph rant about how I personally destroyed comedy and freedom by not watching it, with a heavy implication that I OWE IT TO HIM to watch it and that I’m a fascist if I don’t give him my clicks.
I just don’t give a fuck about Chappelle, but spoiler alert, he’s not some edgy on the brink celebrity. He’s washed up celeb #386 out of 1,000 who have chased the easy paycheck of saying the things that only the dredges of society want to hear. If you think hearing “trans women are men LULULULUL” for the 800th time is all you want in life, by all means go empty your wallets for Chappelle, Seinfeld, Sorbo, etc - but FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF with this bullshit “you’re the real fascist if you don’t throw your money/attention at them” nonsense.
Yeah he had a bit about how he believes trans people are gender they claim
But against Seinfeld’s point; it still got made and is still on streaming platforms
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Honestly, to me that seems to be evidence that they were never good but just lucky.
They never understood how to play with expectations or culture. How to shock people with the absurd nature of reality. They never understood comedy. They just happened to say stuff that people liked. Maybe because they were famous? And just as fame makes you pretty, it makes you funny?
I don’t know but clearly they never understood their craft. Pure luck got them away.
The irony here is that your comment seems to suggest that you don’t understand comedy. Comedy is not about “saying funny stuff”, it’s the ability to say anything and make it funny, it takes skill, and above all, it especially requires them to “understand expectations and culture”.
Why do people always find it necessary to undermine the success of someone just because you don’t like something they did? It’s perfectly possible, even likely, that these people who are good at something also have flaws. Are you so surprised by that that you suddenly feel the need to question everything they’ve ever done?
Seinfeld became successful because he was good at comedy, Seinfeld is right that a small vocal woke minority has a negative impact on the profession, and yes a 40 year old dating a 17 year old is questionable. These things can all coexist without coming up with some outlandish theory just to convince yourself that the world is not a complex environment that you can’t wrap your head around.
The irony is that you agree with me that they need to understand expectations and culture while dismissing my point about the lack of understanding the culture and expectations, because otherwise they wouldn’t need to complain about struggling with the expectations and culture of today. You can claim that it is a small minority that creates the issue but if they are actually impacted by the minority than that minority might be the minority of people who used to like their stuff.
There is a “minority” of people that don’t like my posts here. I am not complaining about it. Because it isn’t affecting me and why is that? Because they aren’t my customers. Comedians have the same situation, if the minority aren’t their customers, they have no reason to care, but they do because it is their customers.
So in essence, you agree with the fact that you need to understand expectations and culture for comedy, and I am saying through the fact that they complain about culture, shows that they don’t understand their job and got lucky that they happen to be in tune with the culture of the past because they wouldn’t know how to fit in that culture if they aren’t in it already anyway.
because otherwise they wouldn’t need to complain about struggling with the expectations and culture of today
You only make this ridiculous notion because you happen to agree with the side being argued against. “Don’t complain, everything changes” is something you utter until it is something that *you *disagree with, unless you’re suggesting that you’d be making the same statements about rampant racism and bigotry. It’s OK Russia, go ahead and ban homosexuality, it’s just the expectations and culture of our times!
Comedy has always been about issues in society, and it has long been a platform for free speech with very little boundaries, and it is exactly for that reason that many comedians and people in the media in general highlight the fact that the attempt to make their profession offence-free is problematic.
Comedians have the same situation, if the minority aren’t their customers, they have no reason to care, but they do because it is their customers.
You’re contradicting yourself. On one hand you’re arguing that it’s the current expectations and culture, but at the same time you’re saying it is the minority. The problem is that this vocal minority has such an effect because everyone with an internet connection these days has the ability to ruin someone’s career because they feel offended over a joke, so rather than take a stance for free speech (and comedy) they appease those who make a lot of noise, just to avoid a negative backlash. I think it is a bit easy to dismiss everyone who calls this into question as merely thinking about their own bread and butter. This guy in particular is almost a billionaire, perhaps there’s more to it, but that of course would make it harder to argue against.
I am saying through the fact that they complain about culture, shows that they don’t understand their job
No it shows that you don’t understand comedy, which has always complained about culture. And if there is one thing that woke idealism can’t stand is criticism about itself. Which is exceptionally ironic, because it complains about everything in the name of progress, and in turn is the biggest promotor of cultural regression.
You seem confused by what I meant.
I am not saying criticizing the culture and expectations is morally wrong and should be punished. I am saying if you have an entertainment job and your job is comedy then it is your job to understand the culture and expectations to make funny jokes. They are struggling with “hate” because they experience the criticism that they want to cast on the culture. And they get the criticism because they fail at being a comedian. They don’t understand the culture and expectations of their audience. Unless they do and they aren’t actually bothered by being “cancelled” because they just lean into reactionary politics. Do you see how concluding that someone is failing to adapt to a changing market isn’t the same as saying the change is good. I am sure the housing market in east Ukraine isn’t great and buying a house there now is probably a bad idea, isn’t the same as saying it is good that Russia is invading them.
“Comedy is about criticizing culture” no. There are wordplays. Nothing about them is criticizing culture. There is a kind of comedy that is about criticizing. That doesn’t mean that as a professional comedian, you need to do that. So as a professional comedian, you choose that kind of comedy and then you choose what kind of jokes you want to make. There are many, even political, comedians that criticize the Public, and they don’t get “cancelled”. Because they understand what kind of audience they have. Which as a professional is your job. And lastly there are a few things that you can criticize, you can punch down, straight and up. If you are mad that the “woke” don’t like it when you punish down, which you do as a successful comedian, when you criticize “vocal minorities” or make fun of the struggle of the average person. Then maybe realize that if you want to do that comedy, laugh with the average person and punch up or straight. Remember, you want your audience to think it is funny too. If you don’t like that power from the bottom controls the state, then you just don’t like democracy and that is fair but then I would suggest you fight that before trying to specifically and exclusively save “punch down” jokes.
“You are contradicting yourself” I am not. Let’s say I have 50million fans in America. I am touring and make millions. Then a “minority” of people in America are my fans. I was mocking the use of “minority” because if the small vocal minorities have such a influence on the public that I am losing fans then maybe… Just maybe… It isn’t a minority of people. Or at least the overlap of my fans and that “minority” is pretty big. Maybe you are just out of touch with your audience. And in the end, if people don’t like your act, people don’t like your act. Your act sucks in the “getting good reactions” department.
“Woke idealism can’t accept criticism” mhm ok sure buddy. “Woke” person: “I don’t like this comedian because I think his jokes are offensive” comedian: “I am being cancelled😭😭😭 why can’t they take criticism???😭😭😭 Comedy is about freedom of speech 😭😭😭 why are they taking their liberty to speak and use it to criticize my culture???😭😭😭 They can’t take a joke😭😭😭” I mean the comedians really handle the criticism well. You are right. Cringe “woke” people. Ha.
They’re mad that the cool people don’t take their calls, their fan base is boring and chudly
No. It’s not. Comedy clubs have bouncers that shield them from people funnier in the crowd.
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I somehow did not expect the 17 year old thing to be quite so creepy.
She was a highschooler who he met in a public park when he was 38. JFC.
I can understand maybe thinking she was older when he talked to her and then finding out later she was underage and backing off, but he definitely just went for it. Creep.
Also he only dated her til she got to drinking age!
“I love those high school girls. I get older, they stay the same. Alright alright alright.”
I remember seeing a post on r/agedlikemilk which theorised that Russell Brand was leaning more into right wing talking points in anticipation of the looming rape accusations being made public.
I wonder if the same thing is happening here.
Would not surprise me in the slightest you’re right.
I can’t say, but seinfeld has almost a billion dollars. The woman would be a fool not to sue and settle for 10 million or something.
Yeah, how foolish to demand actual justice in form of a criminal conviction for crimes instead of just letting people get away with it by paying hush money.
my favorite part of Seinfeld complaining that woke has killed comedy is that Curb Your Enthusiasm just finished a 24 year, 12 season run and their last season has a 94% on Rotten Tomatoes.
I mean how far can “What’s the deal with crackers?” humour go?
You see, “crackers” means White People. Really, he was trying to start a conversation about race relations. Or was that when Jerry ate a black and white and got sick after comparing the cookie to race relations?
During the first two years of Seinfeld Jerry would stop by The Howard Stern show once a week trying to get the word out about the show. Howard said multiple times when the show takes off and is doing well Jerry would find a reason to stop coming in. Sure enough Robin reported the story of Jerry dating Shoshanna and Jerry stopped coming on.
Howard kept making fun of this, even sang a song with video intercut during his PPV.
Howard at least never pretended he wasn’t an asshole.
I mean… his movie kind of implied he sort of wasn’t? And also that the marriage that ended not long after was a perfect one.
“Extreme left” is such a ridiculous term to use for this sort of thing lmao
boy if they think this is what the extreme left is, they’re in for a fucking ride
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
You can be extremely cynical in your scripting while still holding up characters who have some sort of moral center and are trying to do the right thing. Old-season Simpsons did this very well. The characters are not bad. They are not nice and they have genuine failings, and the situations they find themselves in are not sugarcoated. But, it’s still a show about trying to maintain your humanity, in a pretty realistic portrayal of the grim reality we all find ourselves in. The original “Arrested Development” is similar although a little more upper-class and light hearted.
Maybe I am a corny motherfucker but I do think that it’s important to try to keep your eye on doing the right thing instead of the wrong thing, because it’s real shit that every human being runs into and it’s definitely not easy. Art does influence the ways people behave and the way they perceive the world. Seinfeld is a show about absolute horrible sociopaths, who ruin relationships and other people’s lives over and over again because of their commitment to selfishness, and if you only look superficially, how relatable and fun and entertaining they can be to spend time with, and how easy it is to overlook what abominably bad people they are as long as it all seems fun.
Somewhere there is a video talking about how Jerry Seinfeld is actually one of the darkest comedians working. I don’t even know where I could start to find it, but the guy talks about watching a Seinfeld bit about throwing trash in the movie theater before he leaves for someone else to clean up, and how the guy watching got this chilling feeling he never got from much more serious topics: Like it’s not an act, he genuinely just feels nothing below surface level, and doesn’t give a fuck what happens.
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
I think that this contrasts rather heavily with It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I had a lot of trouble getting into the show because I thought that that was what they were doing. But, in reality, we’re NOT supposed to empathize with or relate to them. The Gang are unapologetically awful people who, despite never really getting what they deserve, cause nearly all of their own problems through their greed and selfishness (plus, Dennis is probably a serial killer).
Yeah I consistently find myself appreciating that show more and more. One of my favorite themes is with the recurring characters. Consistently if they give in to the gang’s bullshit like Cricket their life gets worse and worse, but if like Carmen they don’t their life gets better every time you see them.
And each of the characters seems to understand that the others suck. Like, Mac calls out Dennis and Dee’s rape. Everyone in the gang acknowledges that Charlie is a stalker and that Mac is a hypocrite. It’s a group of terrible people who push away everyone else so they keep coming back to each other.
My favorite episode is definitely the musical. It seems like the one time that The Gang (or most of them) aren’t trying to scheme and genuinely are doing their best. They just sabotage themselves because they’re all too selfish and stupid to not, even when they are trying.
I don’t think it’s either/or. IASIP is good because it both mocks the characters for being awful while simultaneously making you like and empathize with them. You can think someone is horrible and a human that deserves things at the same time. In fact I think what makes that show exceptional is exactly these two viewpoints having truth to them. It would’ve gotten old really fast to me if it was just laughing at assholes.
That’s fair. Like, the spiritual successor to Seinfeld, Always Sunny, is made by people who hate their characters as people. The show goes out of its way to explain to the audience that Dennis and Dee are both rapists because some of the audience didn’t see it. In Seinfeld I can absolutely imagine a scene in which the characters describe sexually violating someone and acting like the victim is overreacting, and the narrative treating that person like they might’ve overreacted. Things are left open to audience interpretation as they consistently act like everyday sociopaths
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
I think that’s more just the consequence of celebrity. They’re supposed to be normal New Yorkers, which is to say petty and superficial and cheap and rude. And that’s supposed to be a funny thing to watch.
But by the ninth season, you’ve developed a parasocial relationship with them. You find the petty rudeness and the stingy superficiality endearing. And they’ve been one-upping themselves for so long, a lot of it just looks absurd rather than obnoxious.
Somewhere there is a video talking about how Jerry Seinfeld is actually one of the darkest comedians working. I don’t even know where I could start to find it, but the guy talks about watching a Seinfeld bit about throwing trash in the movie theater before he leaves for someone else to clean up, and how the guy watching got this chilling feeling he never got from much more serious topics: Like it’s not an act, he genuinely just feels nothing below surface level, and doesn’t give a fuck what happens.
Go back and listen to “I’m Telling You For The Last Time”, the comedy album he put out right after the show rapped.
I think a lot of the show is Larry David’s own brand of cynical humor. But Seinfield was the perfect vehicle precisely because he’s just this soulless husk of a human being who has filled his emptiness with unlimited money.
this soulless husk of a human being who has filled his emptiness with unlimited money.
If the last 2 decades had a tagline…
Found it on Reddit I think: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/18oeiw/clip_from_jerry_seinfeld_standup_on_letterman_feb/
I agree! I think just about anyone who has stupid amounts of money has no conscience, personally. Maybe Bill Gates a little. But I especially believe that Seinfeld was showing us who he really was during the whole show. Well maybe not the first year when he was relatively normal, but after success hit, I honestly think he just became a narcissist.
Nah, Bill Gates is just like the rest of them. He pushed for a Covid vaccine just so he could own it. The researchers didn’t want to profit from it and he shot that down. Check the Behind the Bastards episode on him.
Ok cool didn’t know that.
Ooph, legit reddit vibes with that exchange, as I hadn’t seen BTB referenced on lemmy yet. I need to check out that episode too! Appreciate it
And his wife bounced afrer Epstien news dropped.
And listen to all of them laughing
“I’m a jackass who throws trash on the floor, hurrdedurr!”
But you have to look at it within the context of the time. At that point, even the horrible people had redeeming qualities. Archie Bunker was a right-wing racist, but his heart was often in the right place. Murphy Brown was horrible to her coworkers, but she fought for the right causes.
And then Seinfeld came out. Everyone in it was horrible. Irredeemably so. There was just nothing else like it at the time.
It also did some really interesting things in terms of experimentation with what you could do with a sitcom, like the episode that takes place entirely while they are waiting in a restaurant for Chinese takeout.
It’s a totally outdated concept now because it’s been done again and again, but it was pretty revolutionary at the time. Personally, I credit this to Larry David, not Jerry Seinfeld.
Normally when people identify all the “P.C. crap” that Seinfeld complains about as coming from the “extreme left” I figure it’s because they’ve gone so far to the right that from way out there Bill Gates looks like a communist. But it’s tempting to give Seinfeld the benefit of the doubt and assume that he might just be confused and ill-informed. The same refusal to accept reality that leaves him unable to let go of the urge to put a llama with a human head in his movie about Pop-Tarts may also have been sufficient to prevent him learning anything at all about politics for the past 30 years.
I think you’re right that he is* just out of touch and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Oh my God, I forgot about that Pop-Tart movie.
E: He is out of touch, not you.
Wait is this an AI hallucination or is there really a pop tart movie?
Oh god. I see. He is making a bold and idiotic statement to get people talking since he has a new movie coming out.
At least he’s not playing a talking pop tart which is what I envisioned.
Still, here we are, talking about him. Ugh.
Yup, a guy who has a comedy movie coming out is whining about not being able to make comedy.
That’s very on brand for him
I was going to give it a chance because Jim Gaffigan is in it and he is still funny, but I saw Seinfeld wrote it and said forget it.
Oblong nibblers
Only real Jerry Seinfeld fans will get this reference!
The trailer wasn’t bad, but it made me feel like I’ve seen the movie.
The trailer seemed like somebody took a single diner conversation between George and Jerry and made an entire movie about it. It didn’t look terrible I guess, but I think it’s going to drag at anything over 100 minutes, and probably well before that.
Pretty much what I meant. It wasn’t bad, it just didn’t make me interested at all.
Jerry, kids aren’t laughing at you because you’re still doing the same style of comedy you did in the 90s and they don’t think it’s funny.
And I say that as someone who does think he’s funny.
Edit: I did standup in the 90s too (obviously nowhere near his level). There are many reasons why I don’t do it anymore, but realizing that what I was doing was getting out of date was definitely a factor. Get out when you can and people might still think of you fondly.
I watched a woman do stand up recently who looked to be in her late 30s/early 40s. All of it was unironically about those stupid millennial kids and how they’re running comedy because they “are woke”. Seriously.
The material is 20 years out of date and she’s a member of that group (or damn close). I think she stole the act from someone 20 years ago who thought a movie like Tropic Thunder would never get made.
