Voting (in many places, for many people) takes almost no effort
The voting apparatus takes immense effort in fact. It takes so much effort that it’s almost all consuming for most nations during the election period and wastes thousands of human-workhours.
I’m not sure I follow. I was talking about what individuals should do: direct action and also voting. Voting is often just a few minutes for the end user.
I’m not talking about what the state should spend resources on.
Most people follow election results and those people’s actions have real, discernable, effects. If you yield on this front, even if you think elections are flawed, you’re letting your opponents have this power uncontested. That’s a terrible strategy.
No, it’s a terrible strategy to waste any effort on elections. If that effort was put in direct action for prefiguration instead, it would not matter what your opponents did.
I really don’t think the little old ladies volunteering to run the tables are an untapped vanguard of the revolution, nor do I think that them spending an afternoon there is mutually exclusive with other activities.
You can’t just ignore the world because you don’t like it and expect it to conform to your desires. Laws and government exist. If you forfeit this front, the people who do put effort in will use these apparatuses to do real things in the real world. People on food stamps can’t eat your idealism. (And programs like that are not mutually exclusive with mutual aid)
I really don’t think the little old ladies volunteering to run the tables
I think you’re being deliberately obtuse or incredibly naive on the amount of volunteer effort extended in elections.
And yes even the little old ladies volunteering on food kitchens would be thousand times more valuable than doing election tables.
I’m not ignoring the real world at all. I’m saying that if we put the electioneering efforts into direct action, it won’t matter if someone else has the state.
Exactly, voting exists to the detriment of any state that implements it. It costs the government billions of dollars. Once we create a socialist paradise, the first thing we should do is abolish elections to save money.
Money, work-hours, whatever. The only efficient and responsible way to run a socialist economy is with the firm grasp of a centralised authority. Voting doesn’t stop fascism, heroic dictators stop fascism.
The voting apparatus takes immense effort in fact. It takes so much effort that it’s almost all consuming for most nations during the election period and wastes thousands of human-workhours.
I meant the amount of effort it takes for the end user.
If we’re going to talk about higher order levels of effort, then everything gets very expensive very quickly.
lol. lmao.
No, The point is that all that “higher order level” of effort is wasted on electoralism. It’s not wasted in direct action.
I’m not sure I follow. I was talking about what individuals should do: direct action and also voting. Voting is often just a few minutes for the end user.
I’m not talking about what the state should spend resources on.
Voting is largely volunteer run. All that effort is wasted. Taking part in elections legitimizes that effort
Most people follow election results and those people’s actions have real, discernable, effects. If you yield on this front, even if you think elections are flawed, you’re letting your opponents have this power uncontested. That’s a terrible strategy.
No, it’s a terrible strategy to waste any effort on elections. If that effort was put in direct action for prefiguration instead, it would not matter what your opponents did.
I really don’t think the little old ladies volunteering to run the tables are an untapped vanguard of the revolution, nor do I think that them spending an afternoon there is mutually exclusive with other activities.
You can’t just ignore the world because you don’t like it and expect it to conform to your desires. Laws and government exist. If you forfeit this front, the people who do put effort in will use these apparatuses to do real things in the real world. People on food stamps can’t eat your idealism. (And programs like that are not mutually exclusive with mutual aid)
I think you’re being deliberately obtuse or incredibly naive on the amount of volunteer effort extended in elections.
And yes even the little old ladies volunteering on food kitchens would be thousand times more valuable than doing election tables.
I’m not ignoring the real world at all. I’m saying that if we put the electioneering efforts into direct action, it won’t matter if someone else has the state.
Exactly, voting exists to the detriment of any state that implements it. It costs the government billions of dollars. Once we create a socialist paradise, the first thing we should do is abolish elections to save money.
I don’t give a fuck about the money
Money, work-hours, whatever. The only efficient and responsible way to run a socialist economy is with the firm grasp of a centralised authority. Voting doesn’t stop fascism, heroic dictators stop fascism.
ye ye fuck off