No, it’s a terrible strategy to waste any effort on elections. If that effort was put in direct action for prefiguration instead, it would not matter what your opponents did.
I really don’t think the little old ladies volunteering to run the tables are an untapped vanguard of the revolution, nor do I think that them spending an afternoon there is mutually exclusive with other activities.
You can’t just ignore the world because you don’t like it and expect it to conform to your desires. Laws and government exist. If you forfeit this front, the people who do put effort in will use these apparatuses to do real things in the real world. People on food stamps can’t eat your idealism. (And programs like that are not mutually exclusive with mutual aid)
I really don’t think the little old ladies volunteering to run the tables
I think you’re being deliberately obtuse or incredibly naive on the amount of volunteer effort extended in elections.
And yes even the little old ladies volunteering on food kitchens would be thousand times more valuable than doing election tables.
I’m not ignoring the real world at all. I’m saying that if we put the electioneering efforts into direct action, it won’t matter if someone else has the state.
And yes even the little old ladies volunteering on food kitchens would be thousand times more valuable than doing election tables.
They can do both!
I’m not ignoring the real world at all. I’m saying that if we put the electioneering efforts into direct action, it won’t matter if someone else has the state.
In what way will it not matter if someone else controls the state?
It sounds like you’re ignoring the real world when you say we should abandon elections and let our opponents take full control of the government. That will lead to incalculable tragedy.
In what way will it not matter if someone else controls the state?
It doesn’t matter because if we take direct action and prefigure mutual aid networks for improving our lives the state fucking collapses from its own contradictions. The reaction from whatever is left from the state to those movements would be identical whether they’re nominally left or right
So I guess they better not sleep or have other hobbies then, either, right? I don’t think expecting maximum optimization is realistic.
It doesn’t matter because if we take direct action and prefigure mutual aid networks for improving our lives the state fucking collapses from its own contradictions.
Many people will suffer and die if the state collapses abruptly. Especially if it continues on the trajectory the right wing is aiming it right now. We should avoid the equivalent of an unsafe shutdown. We can do more than one thing at a time, especially when one of those things is “spend 15 minutes once a year voting against the store brand nazi”. If you just forfeit on this front, people will be rounded up and disappeared because that’s what won the election, and there are enough people that comply, and enough people that are eager for that. Voting won’t magically fix everything, but it can act as harm reduction.
No, it’s a terrible strategy to waste any effort on elections. If that effort was put in direct action for prefiguration instead, it would not matter what your opponents did.
I really don’t think the little old ladies volunteering to run the tables are an untapped vanguard of the revolution, nor do I think that them spending an afternoon there is mutually exclusive with other activities.
You can’t just ignore the world because you don’t like it and expect it to conform to your desires. Laws and government exist. If you forfeit this front, the people who do put effort in will use these apparatuses to do real things in the real world. People on food stamps can’t eat your idealism. (And programs like that are not mutually exclusive with mutual aid)
I think you’re being deliberately obtuse or incredibly naive on the amount of volunteer effort extended in elections.
And yes even the little old ladies volunteering on food kitchens would be thousand times more valuable than doing election tables.
I’m not ignoring the real world at all. I’m saying that if we put the electioneering efforts into direct action, it won’t matter if someone else has the state.
They can do both!
In what way will it not matter if someone else controls the state?
It sounds like you’re ignoring the real world when you say we should abandon elections and let our opponents take full control of the government. That will lead to incalculable tragedy.
They cannot do both! Time is finite.
It doesn’t matter because if we take direct action and prefigure mutual aid networks for improving our lives the state fucking collapses from its own contradictions. The reaction from whatever is left from the state to those movements would be identical whether they’re nominally left or right
So I guess they better not sleep or have other hobbies then, either, right? I don’t think expecting maximum optimization is realistic.
Many people will suffer and die if the state collapses abruptly. Especially if it continues on the trajectory the right wing is aiming it right now. We should avoid the equivalent of an unsafe shutdown. We can do more than one thing at a time, especially when one of those things is “spend 15 minutes once a year voting against the store brand nazi”. If you just forfeit on this front, people will be rounded up and disappeared because that’s what won the election, and there are enough people that comply, and enough people that are eager for that. Voting won’t magically fix everything, but it can act as harm reduction.
What? That makes no sense with what I was saying.
not if it collapses due to anarchist prefiguration. That’s the whole point!
Honestly I don’t think you’re reading or comprehending what I’m saying so I think I’ll just disengage here.