Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?
“They did not answer the question,” he said.
“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”
“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”
Trump pretty much won on optics alone and positioning himself once again as looking out for people despite not being true at all. Dems didn’t want to address people’s issues with the economy and did the weird thing of tap dancing for right Dick Cheney voters who don’t exist.
Just stand for something, even if the risk of loss is high. It pays off in the end.
Every breakdown and postmortem i see make it pretty clear:
If you paid close attention and were well-informed, you voted for Kamala.
If you believe things aren’t true or didn’t pay close attention, you voted for Trump as a sort of totem for wealth and success, not because of a specific policy of his you like. He just represents making lots of money to you.
Any grappling with what went wrong or improvements needed within the DNC first needs to reckon with the reality that people aren’t seeing left-wing messaging and are instead exposed to a fake version of leftism pushed constantly by right-wing actors on social media.
The small concession is that Trump is almost undoubtedly going to trip over his dick, so we’ll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028. Nothing will change for the DNC and no lessons will be learned, so 2032 looks bleak as shit.
We need to understand that Dems are not going to fight for anyone besides their donors. They’d rather lose than take pointers from someone like Bernie
In a capitalist society, the role of government should be to protect citizens from corporations.
If nobody is willing to do that, what use are they?
Don’t worry too much, it’s the same in France. A whole side of the politic is in denial.
We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests
Evergreen quote-
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair
Corporations and Republicans control the media. Putin deployed psyops on the social media of the bar room and bowling alley crowd. They controlled the narrative and will continue to control it until people wake up and realize they have become wage slaves who have a shit-hole standard of living.
People want real fucking change. One man stood up against a massive evil health insurance company and regular people from all sides of the political spectrum support him.
Dems could have won if they were willing to do the same and no one would even need to be hurt to do it.
Naturally, there are a host of other problems mentioned in this thread. The trouble is that there is too much free $peech from the ruling class in politics.
I think for people like me, the biggest fuck you was from Obama. He ran on hope and change. He ran on at least a public option. And he went into the office and literally shut down the ground operation that swept him into his position and then basically spent 8 years appeasing Republicans despite the fact that people wanted transformational change. That’s why they picked him over Clinton. He delivered Romneycare, bank bailouts, and drone wars.
And when people wonder why it’s so hard to get out the vote, I think this is a key reason why. I’m old enough to have gone to Obama’s rallies, knock on doors for his campaign as a volunteer, vote for him and watch with joy as he won.
Hope and change. After the George W Bush presidency and the war on terror, it finally seemed like it was time for the pendulum to swing back.
And then every issue they came to the table with a position already in the center in hopes of appealing to the republicans who would then hold their breath and kick their feet and then it would slide further and further to the right until they were holding up romneycare as a progressive victory while also getting completely destroyed in the court of public opinion for passing romneycare.
I knew a lot of people that were very excited for Obama the candidate and completely disillusioned by Obama the president.
And I await the apologists to come out and tell me how he had to do it this way, they only had a super majority for a few weeks. Sure if the republicans have the slimmest majority they rewrite the tax codes and give away trillions to the wealthiest, and if they are in the minority they still somehow get their policies passed. But when democrats have power, well you see, government takes time. They can’t possibly just have the bill ready and call for a vote, you see, that’s just not how it works.
You can only tell people so many times. Vote blue and we promise this time, this time, we will make it better. I know last time we didn’t, but it was because of the blue dogs, or Joe Lieberman, or Joe Manchin. Sure, we have no plan to get rid of those people or other spoilers and we will doggedly support them in every primary… but somehow this time will be different.
I honestly wonder if at this point, candidates would be better off pursuing progressive legislation by running a Republicans.
Ideological purity doesn’t matter worth a shit to Republicans. See Republican voters loving the ACA while hating Obamacare. The party that is supposedly pro free market now openly endorses tariffs and regulation on business to advance a host of culture war bugbears. Republicans are not libertarians; the base especially isn’t ideologically opposed to government programs.
I could see a progressive running for the Republican nomination, a latter-day Teddy Roosevelt. And since the Republicans have become the party of the working class, while Democrats are the party of lawyers and big business, the attack lines write themselves. “Democrats are in bed with the insurance industry!” “Democrats want to pick your pocket instead of giving you healthcare!” “Democrats can’t pass a health plan without lining the pockets of their donors!”
The Republican party has proven itself to be much more susceptible to disruption from outside charismatic figures. The Republican base has far more control over the Republican party than the Democratic base does of the Democratic party. In 2016, the establishment Republicans tried to shoot Trump down, but their base overpowered them, and Trump took over the party. Bernie tried the same thing in 2016 and 2020, but the DNC was far more powerful and able to resist this outside takeover.
I really think that now may be the time for a return of progressive Republicans in the mold of Teddy Roosevelt. Promise to fix healthcare and break up big businesses left and right. Throw a bone to the right by promising to exclude illegal immigrants from the healthcare law (which they would never be eligible for anyway.) Hell, you could even write it so it didn’t exclude coverage for abortion and trans healthcare. If someone points that out, just lie and say that your plan does include these exclusions. It’s not like the truth on such things matters anymore. Sell it in simple terms the common man can understand.
I really do wonder if at this point, progressive candidates might gain more traction by running as Republicans. The Republican party is not ideologically libertarian, and it has proven far more receptive to outsiders and new ideas than the Democratic party.
And I await the apologists to come out and tell me how he had to do it this way, they only had a super majority for a few weeks. Sure if the republicans have the slimmest majority they rewrite the tax codes and give away trillions to the wealthiest, and if they are in the minority they still somehow get their policies passed. But when democrats have power, well you see, government takes time. They can’t possibly just have the bill ready and call for a vote, you see, that’s just not how it works.
Every single time!
I still find it frustrating to hear this line every single time. Like somehow every single member of congress during that time was hyper focused on the ACA bill, couldn’t have pushed for their own legislation to be pushed forward.
I’ve had plenty of wake up calls, and every time I do, someone calls me weird for the dog whistles becoming fog horns.
And I await the apologists to come out and tell me how he had to do it this way, they only had a super majority for a few weeks.
They will all be miraculously absent when Republicans change the senate rules to get rid of the filibuster.
I remember watching the debates during the Obama campaign and thinking “this guy is just as pro big business as the republicans”. The only candidate who was talking about the need to limit the political power of corporations/finance was Ron Paul.
Bernie to Trump pipeline
Actually the other way around. Ron Paul to Bernie pipeline. I was reading Corey Doctorow and Lawrence Lessig at the time and I was willing to vote for anyone who might limit corporate power/corporate funding of political campaigns. I will never understand why so many people were excited for Obama. He just always seemed like your standard change nothing and let the rich get richer polititian to me. Although, I will admit he is a very charismatic speaker.
Kamala was running on “Isn’t Trump a weirdo?”, but that was working so she stopped.
The DNC does not want to win if it means causing actual change.
They pivoted from “Trump is a weirdo” to “Dick Cheney likes us!” like the absolute morons they are.
It convinced 12Mil not to vote for her and 1Mil not to vote for Trump.
Courting Republicans is clearly a winning strategy for a Democrat! /s
I love how “We were too woke!”, and I"m like “Woke? Is that what you call having Thanksgiving with Penis Cheney?”
and drone wars
I’d have been fine with the US killing even more Al-Qaida and Taliban members, even those that happened to be US citizens fighting alongside their comrades in a combat zone. Every single one of them would be about right. And if you’re squeamish about drones, let’s be real, you are really just squeamish about warfare, because every other form of killing in warfare is just as brutal and most are far more indiscriminate.
Also, as soon as Trump got in the first time, he changed rules of engagement to take less account of civilian casualties.
iirc technically Obama reduced counting of drone strike civillian casualties, Trump just stopped counting all together.
Y’all stay on Obama’s dick.
Maybe you didn’t read that comment? I think you got it backwards.
People want real fucking change.
So they helped to elect Trump for a non-consecutive term lol
They want us to think real change is impossible.
Left vs right or democrat vs republican — that framing is a distraction in this political reality. The war is between the 99% and the 1%. It’s the working class vs the billionaire class. Your republican neighbor may be a MAGA religious crazy, voting against his financial interests, but he’s been successfully manipulated by a corrupt party controlled by billionaires. Your other neighbor may ‘vote blue no matter who’, ignoring or ignorant to the fact that most democrats at the state and federal level are also influenced or bought by corporate interests and the 1%. These neighbors are clearly not the same, but they are both supporting the interests and agenda of a billionaire class that is oppressing them.
That is not to say that republicans or religious extremism are not threats — they very much are — but they have been allowed to gain power due to a broken and corrupt system of government.
The system is broken because unlimited money gets funneled into politics. It’s destroyed our checks and balances, as well as the incentive structure for our judges and our representatives — most of whom no longer have a primary interest in representing the 99% of us. We are being taxed, robbed, poisoned, oppressed and enslaved by our own government, without even proper representation to show for it.
We cannot expect that our elected representatives will act in our best interests; they require our constant input and scrutiny of their actions. Either we as a people become more involved with politics at all levels of government, or we start a revolution. The problem of corruption in all levels of our government will not be solved by the corrupted. A continuation and increase of wealth inequality will destroy this country.
The corporate-backed fascist MAGA-America regime starts tomorrow, but we are not powerless. The 99% has power. We must come together, organize, educate, exercise empathy and patience with one another, and take action; we can take back control. We have to.
While that’s true, choosing to vote for Trump, a third-party, or not at all is like saying, “I don’t like this ham sandwich and I don’t like my sandwich choices… so I’m going to eat this dog-turds-and-radioactive-glass-shards sandwich instead!”
This country is fucked.
Edit: Rather than respond below to every comment, thought I’d clarify a few things here.
- I never said Democrats didn’t fuck up. They certainly did.
- But - and this is important - we can’t ignore the roles that racism, sexism, and above all misinformation played. To pretend there was none, and that vast swaths of the electorate didn’t fall for it, would be disingenuous.
Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People’s Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.
You’re missing the lesson too, ironically.
The voters didn’t like what the Democrats were offering them, they wanted change, and they wanted it badly enough that they went ahead and ate that dog-turd-and-glass-sandwich.
You’re saying “they shouldn’t have eaten that, the sandwich the Democrats were offering was better.” Okay, well, they did it anyway. So you’re wrong. The Democrats were wrong. They’ve been wrong multiple times now. They’re doing the “Am I so out of touch? No. It’s the voters who are wrong.” Meme.
America’s a democracy. The voters aren’t wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice. If you want a different government you have to offer them one that they’ll vote for. That may require some compromises, but that’s part of democracy.
I hope that they get it this time. This is the second time in recent memory that they’ve made this mistake. Even Biden’s election was closer than it should have been. I really hope that the DNC gets its head out of its ass and cleans house, but articles like this are disheartening.
I live in a deep blue state. Family is all very blue. They have learned absolutely nothing. They all think what the Democrats did was perfect. Kamala was flawless. She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
They genuinely believe that there was nothing they could have done to improve.
I think they are gonna have to learn this lesson a few more times before they pull their heads outta their ass finally. I hope.
It won’t happen. Every election in the last 25 years, including midterms, where the democrats tried to play to “moderate republicans”, they got wiped out.
and they keep trying to dislodge “sane” republicans because they’d rather maintain centralized power than risk a grass roots movement distributing power to the masses. dyed in the wool democrats prefer fascism to meaningful reform
Obama was amazingly effective at the ballot box, but to the established Democratic power structure he was dangerous. Luckily for them he merged himself into their structure rather than maintaining his separate power base and taking on individual in-party resistors like Trump has, but it was a warning about what could happen and they took that lesson to heart. They do not want anything resembling another Obama.
Yep, that’s why Hillary was basically in control of the party via Debbie Wasserman-Shultz and how much the DNC effectively owed Clinton at that point.
People want to memory hole that aspect of it but it was 100% a response to the Obama presidency an attempt to grab a stranglehold on the party which she used to shut down Sanders and force her nomination. People often forget this is the same year the Republicans rejected Jeb Bush. America didn’t want Bush v. Clinton again, and Trump and Sanders were the only voices offering anything different. Democrats shut down their nascent progressive wing, and Trump just steamrolled the Republicans because he’s a fucking bully and those guys bend over and take it for bullies.
Typical leftist using the rigged theory just like MAGA.
You have to conclude that they’d rather chase after “moderate Republicans” and lose than chase after the left and win.
So if Dems are never left enough for you. Wouldn’t that mean they’re moderate. Which means they won in 06, 08, 12, 18, 20 and 22 being “moderate”.
They won in 2020 on the wake of protests and low-information voters who thought they’d be freeing the immigrant camps, defunding the police, codifying roe, and getting free healthcare.
They got wiped out in 22 by being moderate and getting fuckall done by trying to compromise with republicans for 2 years.
In 06 and 08, they were finally coming about against the Iraq war and promising things, unlike in 2004 where they simply said they would do the war more competently.
And thinking like this is why the democrats are going to continue to lose, and minorities and women will continue to get fucked for it.
Democrats, it’s the economy, stupid.
Her fascist border plan, embrace of genocide, and her running mate Liz Cheney were all great in their opinion? Wow. I need to talk to some Dems sometime.
I need to talk to some Dems sometime.
.world is here 24/7.
75 million votes
Biden got 80 million and won on a much more progressive platform (that he ignored when in office). Harris ran a conservative campaign that depressed her base in favor of appealing to republicans. It was some sorkin brained shit that obviously stupid and many of us were yelling about it at the time. We were right but Dems will never listen because they love corporate money more than winning or having a livable planet.
To be fair afaik Biden didn’t ignore his progressive platform. He definitely said things he then didn’t accomplish, but if I understand it right they were within the range of “all politicians lie” rather than having completely ignored his platform Obama-style.
Most pro-labour administration since FDR, but that still counted for nothing, apparently.
Ran on being compassionate to migrants, deported more than Trump and had Title 42 longer. Said he’d get rid of private prisons, those migrants end up in private prisons.
Ran on cleaning up Trumps mess with Covid, just declared it over with while Americans died in droves. Didn’t even try to mitigate it. His press secretary had the gall to laugh when a reporter suggested sending free tests which they ended up doing because of public pressure.
Ran on cleaning up Washington after Trump. Appointed the most useless man in the word Merrick Garland who sat on his fucking hands until Trump rehabilitated his image. Speed was key and Biden might just be responsible for the end of American democracy because of his lack of spine.
Ran on the energy from the George Floyd protests. Solved the problem of policing of black people by funding the living shit out of cops. I assume he is trying to drown them in money.
Then he funded the shit out of genocide that his base fucking hated. Just from a pragmatic point of view he should have stopped for the elections sake, but he did it anyways because he doesn’t think Palestinians are people.
I was Biden’s biggest fan after the IRA passed. Finally we are doing something for the environment. But that is all going to be undone because the fuck refused to step down so we could have a primary.
Because thats pretty debatable. Where was the Biden administration when the cops were breaking up the amazon strike? And Biden forced the rail union not to strike, right? And in the end years later gave them a fraction of what the strikers were going to demand, and called it victory. Typical centrist outcome.
It counted for nothing because inflation was hurting the working class and Democrats are shit at messaging.
She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
This talking point is just so Democrats have an excuse to keep AOC out of the 2028 race in favor of some centrist turd barge.
What has AOC done that Kamala hasn’t?
What has AOC done that Kamala hasn’t?
Give a coherent speech. Talk about policy poistions. Pave her own way instead of riding on someone elses coattails. Have some basic principles and humanity. Have a staff that doesnt talk to the press about what a tyrant she is. Fight for whats right instead of what will bring in bribes.
The two couldnt be more different.
How does her dick taste?
Have positions to Biden’s left.
Actually asked voters what they want rather than tell them bullshit lies.
Stood against the palestinian genocide
Wants universal health care. Pushed the green new deal.
Kamala is way more unpopular and doesnt support progressive policies, Kamala is a neoliberal, not a progressive.
I like neoliberals
That’s obvious
The blue bubble is as heard to burst as the red bubble. My mom lives on msnbc. There is not a moment that its not on just like my dad lives on fox. They are completely in their own different worlds made of fiction. Dad thought there was no way Trump could loose to Biden just as my mom thought there was no way Hillary/Harris could loose to Trump. Both had no moment of realisation, no moment of reflection just disbelief that they live in a bubble. Its always someone else’s fault. Dad blamed the Democrats and mom blames the left.
To me it’s obvious that Chomsky was right about manufacturing consent.
MSNBC is liberal Fox News. They both are the circuses while the public is clamoring for breadcrumbs.
To me it’s obvious that Chomsky was right about manufacturing consent.
Always has been.
Harris has a lot of flaws, but America is absolutely racist and sexist, and Trump couldn’t have won otherwise. .
Your family is correct. America is racist and sexist. Asl yourself, after that debate and the several Trump fumbles on the campaign trail. Would you vote for him or Harris? Regardless if you thought she was perfect or not.
If you voted for Trump, you obviously didnt care about policy when every indication points to his being objectively worse. And I’m ready to argue that all day.
No. You’re showing the same fundamental misunderstanding the Democrats do.
If people are hurting, and one candidate says “I see you’re hurting, and I will do XYZ to help you” while another says “We’re all doing fine, nothing will change with me” - it’s no wonder people go with the former! Even if they are lying.
Well they don’t even have to decide they wanna eat a shit sandwich- they just have to not be motivated enough to go to the polls and say “I’d like the snot sandwich instead of the shit sandwich, please”. Which is what seems to have happened this election as best I’m aware
A lot of democratic voters weren’t motivated, and didn’t show up. And I agree with the statement made by the person quoted in the post, a huge part of that feels like it’s the democratic party’s complete unwillingness to criticize moneyed interests and figure out how to actually appeal to their constituency, and so they’re loosing people. And now we’re all stuck with that shit sandwich.
My concern with statements like this is that I don’t think your considering the impact that misinformation had on this election.
There were massive disinformation campaigns that had sizable effects on the dialogue that people had with their friends and neighbors. I’m worried that we could have actually put someone like Bernie as our nominee and that we still would have lost because of exactly this misinformation.
The Democrat message wasn’t making it to people and I think that it really shows…
The Democrats message was literally “The Cheney’s like us!” and “ithe economy is fine, the GDP has never been higher!” while everyone’s lives are objectivly worse than they were 2 years ago. What messge do you think people wanted to here?
If you want to be completely reductionist, then sure. They were trying to show that Trump was so upsetting that people were crossing party lines to vote Democrat…not that Democrats have becomes so centrist that they attracted right-wingers. And the economy has been great, they’re not wrong. The Democrat platform was also fantastic: $6k child tax credit, $25k first time home buyer assistance, tax reforms replacing the corporate tax rate to 28%< and taxing the rich, capping medication costs, union support, pushing reproductive rights, climate action, immigration reform. They had a STRONG platform.
…but that wasn’t good enough. So they elected the billionaire conman that is putting up his billionaire cronies. That’s going to help the economy. Like…could the Democrat message have been better? Sure, but it wasn’t bad by any means.
But how are you supposed to argue with someone who doesn’t operate on facts?
Trump didn’t have many more voters this time around than 4 years ago. Democrats didn’t go out to vote because they don’t believe the in the message the DNC has been putting out for the last 8 years. I don’t know what it will take to get you to understand that. All those policies are shit the Republicans would have pushed for 20 years ago. People don’t want tax credits dor their children, they want access to healthcare and and affordable child care. They don’t want tax credits for first time home buyers, they want landlords tarred and feathered on the courthouse steps. People can’t afford their rent and food anymore but the DNC are so far up their own ass they can’t see that.
Jesus H. Christ…you wrote that paragraph and meant it, without any reflection.
To start I voted for Harris, and every Dem down ballot.
But I see your list of a few boring economic things which would never have touched my life, a tax rate so low that it is disgusting, and a bunch of nebulous promises with no real policy.
Capping medication cost…how exactly? Biden capped the medicare cost of like 12 medications…So just keep going like that. Is THAT the reform policy? Because fuck that. That isn’t change, that is tinkering.
Union support…What exactly does this mean. Does this mean the Dems wont break strikes? Because the Dems kept breaking strikes under Biden.
Pushing reproductive rights…ummm, but what does this mean? Does this include fixing the Supreme Court and the Filibuster so that actual legislation can happen…because we both know it does not.
Climate action? More drilling happened under Biden than Trump.
Immigration Reform? Dude, Biden was horrible on immigration, he just continued the Trump policy, then after being beaten over the head with immigration for 3 years pushed a right wing immigration reform to call the Republicans bluff. And Harris did nothing to differentiate herself from Biden.
And of course…then there is the weapon sales and genocide denial-ism. That too was a policy.
Disagreeing with something doesnt make it disinformation. What were the big lies being spread about Kamala that affected the voter base? I’m not on social media, the only thing I watched was the live interview she did on fox, and she was rude and deceptive. Is an uncut interview disinformation?
the voters aren’t wrong
CITATION NEEDED
Don’t worry though, we won’t have to worry about voters soon, right?
CITATION NEEDED
America is a democracy, is it not? In a democracy the voters decide who leads them. There’s nobody to “overrule” them. If you want to lead them you have to convince them to vote for you, you can’t declare them “wrong” and take power anyway.
Don’t worry though, we won’t have to worry about voters soon, right?
Are you saying that’d be a good thing? That seems to be what you’re suggesting, but this also seems to be sarcasm.
Do you think the voters should be overruled when they vote Republican but not when they vote Democrat?
Direct quote from the orange man: vote for me this one time, and you won’t have to vote any more. But I’m sure you conveniently missed that part of the rage cycle last year and definitely aren’t being obtuse in bad faith.
The voters can make an objectively incorrect decision, that is their prerogative. Doesn’t exonerate them for being mocked, where else would leopards eating faces get its content from?
Direct quote from the orange man: vote for me this one time, and you won’t have to vote any more. But I’m sure you conveniently missed that part of the rage cycle last year and definitely aren’t being obtuse in bad faith.
I honestly have no idea what you’re saying here. I think democracy is good, overall. You’re apparently agreeing with me, but in a way that makes it sound like you’re accusing me of opposing democracy somehow?
The voters can make an objectively incorrect decision, that is their prerogative.
The decision being made is “who do we want to have as president?” It’s an opinion.
I think democracy is the best option. very different from good.
Opinions can be wrong. The fact that that needs to be stated is laughable.
The voters aren’t wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
This is a bad take that I keep seeing.
Yes, the DNC fucked up massively. They should definitely have done more to convince voters.
But the voters who voted Trump/3rd party/abstained because of that are also morons who fucked up massively.
Both things are true. The DNC’s glaring mistakes do not absolve the voters of their agency. The lesson isn’t that the dog-turd sandwich eaters are rational actors, it’s that the DNC needs to take into consideration people being irrational morons if they want to win. But at the end of the day, they’re not the ones eating the sandwich. Voters have their own lesson to learn.
Both things are true.
That’s fine, I wasn’t saying the second thing was false. I wasn’t saying anything about the second thing at all.
The Democrats don’t get to choose what electorate they’re trying to convince. They must convince the American electorate. You can say whatever you want about the electorate but that doesn’t change the Democrats’ one job.
The voters aren’t wrong
That’s certainly something.
I’m perfectly fine criticizing the DNC for screwing up their one job, but that doesn’t erase my disdain for the views screwing up their’s.
And in fact, I think all this focus on criticizing the DNC over the voters, here on lemmy, is counterproductive. It isn’t incorrect, but look around you. Do you think DNC leadership is hanging out here reading these comments? I doubt it. I know for a fact that there are voters here who thought boycotting Harris would accomplish something.
If you’re going to write DNC leadership to lay bare their inadequacies, have at it. But doing that here just reinforces the idea that the voters don’t have their share of the blame. It’s just circle jerking about how everything is the Dem’s fault. The only ones who benefit from that are the Republicans, salivating over the infighting.
I criticize both the DNC and the American voters.
However, one of those things is much more capable of short-term change than the other. So criticism of that thing is much more valuable in the short term than criticism of the other.
Again, one of those things is in the audience right now, the other is not. Criticizing people who aren’t around to hear you has no value. You might as well whisper your complaints into a shoebox to tuck under your bed.
I encourage everyone to join me in writing their representatives detailed messages about their shortcomings, and proposed remedies. I encourage everyone to convince others to do the same. I encourage everyone to be politically active between elections.
I also encourage everyone to use their vote strategically on election day to slow the rise of fascism. Calling out ineffective strategy is part of that.
but that doesn’t erase my disdain
Sorry buddy, literally no one anywhere cares about your disdain, or anything else about you. If someone could make a nickel for killing us, we’d all be dead right now. Thats how much anyone cares.
Except me, because I have a “kreskin” branded hanky I can sell you though, for 20 dollars. PM me.
Don’t deny voters their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did. They made a stupid choice for idiotic reasons, and will get nothing but suffering for it. There are situations in life where feeling deeply and unconditionally ashamed of your own idiocy is the correct course of action, and this is one of them.
Don’t deny voters their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did.
Don’t deny Dem leaders their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did.
Only the mind of a child could think of the idea that the two are mutually exclusive.
Voters have agency. Let’s tell them how they will be voting and do nothing to appeal to them.
If they were too insignificant to listen to, they are too insignificant to blame. Your party lost because your party is shit on purpose.
I voted for Harris and of course Trump is worse, so spare me the only talking point any of you have.
I don’t have a party. Voters had all the information they needed, and they chose poorly.
Democrats thought they didn’t have to appeal to their voters. They were wrong.
Removed by mod
I voted for Harris. Not that you care.
Votes can’t be wrong by definition, they are opinions. But if you accepted that you would have to get off your pedestal wouldnt you, and thats no fun. Go ahead and puff up your chest and brag about how obviously stupid so many people are.
Stop crying and take accountability.
😭
Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People’s Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.
The problem you (people blaming voters) don’t seem to understand is, the Democrats moving right DIRECTLY demotivated voters and they stayed home because they were going to get right wing policy either way. They literally had no choice in multiple different avenues of how the country would be run so they said “fuck it if I got no choice for x y AND z, why vote?” maybe they still had a choice for a-w but maybe those specific policies didn’t matter to them personally and wouldn’t have affected their life.
This is A) the problem with having a shitty party platform and B) the problem with hyper-individualism that our country loves.
See, this is where you’re wrong. By every measure, the Democratic party platform was objectively better for humans living on planet Earth. Its problems were in degree (not being nearly progressive enough), not in focus (such as screaming incoherently about trans people).
But people didn’t know, because of the aforementioned misinformation and disinformation. Seriously, did you know that the party platform contains an entire section on protecting LGBTQI+ people and rights? Most progressive voters who sat this one out never read it. Here, see for yourself.
But because the Democratic party wasn’t progressive enough (in some people’s eyes), they sat out the election, and someone who is a thousand times worse in every respect is going to be president tomorrow.
I take that personally. I have a trans son and a gay daughter, and their lives will be so much worse, starting tomorrow. And to protect them, I’m actively trying to figure out how to leave this country, because a lot of people didn’t care enough to protect my kids.
In 1930’s Germany, the Jewish people (and Gypsies, and - again - gay and trans people, and so on) who survived when that country descended into fascism are the ones who got the fuck out first. That is the reality that this purity bullshit has created for people like my kids.
If the electorate doesn’t know a party’s platform, that’s the party’s problem. It’s literally their job to scream it from the rooftops.
And all I saw was democrats, like motherfucking Henry Cuellar, throwing the LGBTQ under the bus. Especially trans people.
If the electorate doesn’t know a party’s platform, that’s the party’s problem. It’s literally their job to scream it from the rooftops.
They did. Harris campaigned constantly, and contrary to the constant and incessant media narrative, she went into plenty of specifics.
It was all drowned out by Trump noise, and the media was 100% complicit.
And all I saw was democrats, like motherfucking Henry Cuellar, throwing the LGBTQ under the bus. Especially trans people.
Yes, Cuellar is an asshole, no argument there. But he was by no means the only Democrat on the campaign trail. Again, the media wouldn’t fucking give Democrats the time of day, because the 24-hour Trump clown show got the ratings.
We also shouldn’t dismiss the problem of sexism, some of it internalized. Back in 2008, I had the misfortune of meeting a woman who wasn’t sure who to vote for. She wanted to vote for McCain at the time, but was hesitant because she didn’t want a woman to be vice-president. (The fact that Sarah Palin was immensely unqualified didn’t matter, but the fact she had a vagina did.) That attitude is still a lot more common than people who live in largely progressive areas realize.
not in focus (such as screaming incoherently about trans people)
why is “trans people” always the example the centrists bring up, like its some sort of totem. Trans peoples rights are not exactly on very many peoples top 10 list of concerns, and I doubt many people could even name the rights trans people are fighting for and dems are supposedly helping with. Trans people are 1% of the population. If thats all we have for a convincing argument we’re doing politics wrong.
Bite me. I’m no fucking centrist. And maybe if you’d actually read my comment, you’d understand why trans issues are important enough for me to mention.
Edit: In light of this instant and predictable attack on my kids, I cordially invite anyone who is okay with Trump in office to “teach Democrats a lesson” to fuck themselves sideways with a pineapple.
If only someone, or a group of like minded thinkers, had predicted this exact social course and offered another course that actually has ideological solutions for capital interests fucking over everything in their quest for more money and power!
I think a lot of the core of the Kamala base is just as out of touch as the Democratic establishment. The fact that the establishment can’t understand this outcome just demonstrates their ineptitude.
People are hurting, a lot. Real wage growth has been stagnant, people are having trouble making ends meet, the wealthy are richer than ever leaving the working class with less and less.
What do the Democrats do to actually improve peoples material conditions? Absolutely nothing. The CHIPS act and IRA are great for longer term problems, but does nothing to put more food on people table. Kamala had the gall to ignore the problem all together. The economy is great, look at the stock market! And her big economic plan? Tax breaks for small businesses and your first home purchase. That’s it. That’s their fucking cornerstone economic policy. That’s not gonna help the vast majority of people.
Then on the other hand you have trump. He tells everyone it’s the brown peoples fault everything sucks, so we will get rid of them (and, by implication, your problems). It’s their fault egg prices are high, just get rid of them and things will go back to the way things were. Of course the rich are the real problem, not immigrants or trans people or any other conservative boogie man, but Trump acknowledged the pain many working class Americans are under.
Now you can think to yourself, how would anyone believe that? Think about someone who’s working two jobs to make ends meet, they’re surrounded by Fox news, all their family is Republican. They were raised in the public education system (half the country can’t read at a 6th grade level) and can’t parse the details of domestic economic policy, but Trump says it’s the brown peoples fault. Finally they felt seen and acknowledged. They remember the Trump stimulus checks. They remember the tax break (even if it’s temporary, they won’t look too closely and notice it’s permeant for the rich).
You know how Democrats win? By bringing back the party of FDR and really championing the working class. Thanks to citizens united we will never see that again, but it’s quite easy to understand their loss against trump. There’s only one issue, and thats class conflict. Until the Democrats stop serving their corporate donors they will never win again as it’s too easy for Republicans to acknowledge working class pain and scapegoat marginalized people.
You know how Democrats win? By bringing back the party of FDR
At this point, I’d expect them to bring back Japanese internment camps and nothing else. I’d say redlining too, but that would involve having a housing program to be discriminatory with.
Wouldn’t surprise me either. Just understand that my point wasn’t that we should go back to the regressive social ideas of that era, but more so that we should return to supporting/expanding the welfare state at the expense of reducing the wealth of billionaires.
Just understand that my point wasn’t that we should go back to the regressive social ideas of that era, but more so that we should return to supporting/expanding the welfare state at the expense of reducing the wealth of billionaires.
Absolutely. I just can’t trust Democrats to do it anymore.
Because the Democrats jave just been a controlled opposition party since Regan.
Redlining was mainly a private-sector thing involving loan availability and insurance premiums. It wasn’t primarily to do with housing programs.
Redlining was an official policy of the Federal Housing Authority under Homer Hoyt.
Not reading all that. I’m apart of Kamala’s base of 75 million. I guess I’m out of touch and super wealthy according to you.
The fact that you so proudly claimed to not want to read yet decided to respond anyway makes you pretty out of touch. That last bit is just icing on the cake since they never claimed that.
You’re certainly out of touch if you won’t even read the explanation as to why you lost.
But I expect little else from the Khive.
Cry more
k then I’m not ready any of yours past “Im not reading all that”. Or any of your other comments either.
Too bad RCV is moving so slowly
Oh man that would be incredible. I’d actually be vaguely satisfied with my choices on the ballot.
Can’t imagine why politicians would be hesitant to mess with a system that put them in power.
RCV was on like 5 ballots last election and failed in each one. The VOTERS didn’t want it.
Neither centrists nor republicans want RCV, yeah. Republicans might lose and centrists might lose the ability to run as second worst to republicans.
In Nevada they tied RCV to independents being able to vote in primaries, instead of being its own bill. The carrot and stick approach upset a lot of people, including me.
Doesn’t matter anymore. I was gonna type “but genocide Joe” every time trump fucks over in some way the people who had a chance to vote for Kamala. But in the end, unity is far more important, division is how putin disarticulated his opposition.
I was gonna type “but genocide Joe” every time trump fucks over in some way the people who had a chance to vote for Kamala.
That would be a great demonstration that you have learned nothing.
I learned that Joe should have dropped out earlier and allowed proper primaries. You will miss “genocide joe” ;)
I learned that Joe should have dropped out earlier and allowed proper primaries.
Then type that instead.
Doesn’t matter, you’ll be lucky to vote again.
DISINFORMATION, not misinformation.
Neoliberalism is done, it’s fucked. The liberals wanted and thought they could pull another Bernie and people would just go with it, fuck that.
The Democrat aristocracy do not care about winning.
They only care about marketing the disaster of their losses so that they can launder billions of dollars in “vote blue” spam campaigns.
All those donations are going somewhere - to “consultancy firms”. To “ad agencies”. And then they get to enjoy kickbacks from this mutual relationship.
THEY DON’T NEED TO WIN TO RAKE IN BILLIONS.
and so they don’t even try.
Honestly I think this article is completely wrong. I’m convinced modern elections are 100% based on vibes and so better messaging and a better candidate would have meant a great deal.
But to add to that - Trump and his idiot base had been messaging and memeing for four years starting with Covid and masks and then inflation and ‘I did that’ stickers of Biden at the gas pump. Biden had barely done any messaging even up until the point he dropped out which, in the social media era, should be obviously big fucking warning signs of a losing campaign.
EDIT - which is not to say I don’t think the Dems need to change in other ways because they absolutely do.
Seriously those gas station “I did that” stickers were an actual grass roots movement, and it’s part of why Trump won.
A lot of people vote based on their wallets. If you’re worse off after 4 years, then why vote for the incumbent?
The Dems need to learn. Cheap food/gas/essentials, less outsourcing, less importing cheap labor, and lose the smugness. That’s what they need to do to win, and I don’t think that would mean abandoning much.
Less importing cheap labor means higher prices. Welcome to math. Americans expect no effort and lives of luxury because they’re at the center of an empire - except of course the ruling class increasingly reaps the rewards, and the money doesn’t recirculate into the economy due to how it’s structured, so we just slip into poverty. Neither major party will fix this, by design.
True, but the voters still want both low prices and good paying jobs, and the Dems promised neither. That’s my point.
Biden’s campaign actually spent months claiming they had stopped inflation (though the inflation, particularly “price inflation”, basically all happened during/under his admin, though as a result of Fed policy, supply chain issues, whatever degree of corporate price gouging, etc.).
Except we weren’t worse off after 4 years because 4 years ago we had Covid, and now we don’t.
We still have covid-19. Sure, fewer people are dying from it now, and yes, we have a vaccine, but most US Americans aren’t getting the regular booster shots required for continued protection against covid. It still kills people. It still causes brain damage and organ damage.
Overall, US Americans just stopped caring about it and stopped taking measures to avoid it.
It’s not about prices bro. It’s about culture
Elaborate
A lot of people talking politics online are younger or trump era folks (post-2016). I can tell you right now, policy don’t mean shit in this country. It’s about culture wars and racism. Romney ran on almost identical policies Trump has ran on THREE times. Deregulation, immigration, lower taxes, agency cuts. Typical Republican shit.
Difference is, Romney didn’t dog whistle enough, he was your average Republican. And Obama beat him comfortably. Trump campaigns almost entirely on culture war nonsense and has a HUGE propaganda machine behind him. But his campaign policy is no different from any other Republican.
Do you honestly think if Trump didn’t lean into racism, xenophobia and bigotry that he’d be successful in politics and gotten this far. You think racist rednecks would storm the Capitol for some billionaire 1 term generic Republican? Come on people. Use your brains. It’s Republican politics 101, always fight culture wars until that specific fight runs out of steam (post 80s gay panic).
Yes, Biden lost because of stickers, not because the economy of the average voter is in shambles
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No, you’re missing the point - the Dems lost because Biden hadn’t built up any trust with average voters regarding the economy over the last four years.
Any informed voter would know the Dems will be better for them than the GOP who has never been more interested in funneling money to their rich benefactors. But the average voter is not informed.
