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- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
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It absolutely blows my mind that a twice impeached insurrectionist single term president is not only running again but allowed to.
What the fuck is wrong with the USA?
Don’t forget, he is the leading candidate for that party too…
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both sides have so much in common that, yes, they are the same. it’s not like the choice is vanilla ice cream or a Michelin 8 course meal. it’s vanilla or chocolate
Vanilla and chocolate are the same? Yes, in that they are flavors but are still distinctly different.
I don’t want ice cream at all.
Username checks out.
I like me
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It astounds me that people are both-siding this when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
It’s not vanilla vs chocolate, it’s vanilla vs ground roach and arsenic parfait.
I’m convinced that anyone equivocating them in 2024 either are in denial that the GOP was murdered and fascists are wearing its skin, or are actively promoting apathy in order to help them.
We need to push back hard against this narrative because, when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
>when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
i couldn’t agree more
>anyone equivocating
they don’t need to be equal to both have fascists and both be unacceptable
Please see my reply to your other comment.
I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide. If you’re actually interested in politics, I beg you to learn what this means.
>I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide.
the absolute irony
>when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
that’s the problem. the actual fascists are on both sides.
Please provide some examples.
I’m very interested in seeing the Democrats who are making overwhelming displays of nationalism that attract actual fascists (which democratic rallies are full of Nazi t-shirts and waving Nazi flags?).
Which Democrats are making thinly-veiled threats of genocide, demonising marginalised groups, and openly calling for concentration camps?
Do you have examples of Democrats banning books and passing laws that outlaw the teaching of objective history and science? Or at least calling objective reporting fake news, as they funnel their supporters to debunked tabloid outlets instead?
Which Democrats are pushing their religion as the only true authority? Where are Democrats trying to force their religion into social and legal policy?
Which Democrats have been attacking education and the arts as a corrupting and demonic influence on society? Which of them have called for legislation to stop the subversive influence of Sesame Street and Mr Potato head, as a random and hypothetical example?
I’d also love examples of Democrats trying to criminalise women’s rights, to the point that women are turned into walking coffins.
Which Democrats have vowed to jail their political opponents?
Finally, which Democrats have refused to concede elections, claiming they’re rigged and false? Which have tried to undermine public trust in democracy, to the point of telling people voting is pointless?
If you’re going to make a claim like that, you need to be able to back it up with evidence. I can do that for every single point of fascism that my questions are obviously based upon, and I’ll bet you can anticipate my examples without me needing to link them. It’s all very public and open in the GOP.
Final question: does your claim come from an understanding of real fascism, or are you using ‘fascism’ to mean ‘things I don’t like’.
One of those is wrong but relatively benign, and the other always leads to genocide.
(Copied from another post)
The thing is, the 14th Amendment, Section 3 isn’t vague on this point - he IS disqualified:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
Look at the wording - it’s clearly intended to be an automatic disqualification. The only way you could possibly arrive at the conclusion that the Office of the President is exempt from this section is by jumping through frankly absurd and facile semantic hoops.
But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Pointedly, the only way Congress should be involved (per the relevant section) is in rescinding the disqualification.
The Supreme Court is prepared to jump through those hoops. They’ve practiced long and hard for this opportunity.
Clarence Thomas’s Patreon is quite well funded, so it’d be dishonest if he didn’t.
(Also copied from another post)
Well, they’re only appointed for life, and they did somewhat recently vastly broaden the scope of the 2nd Amendment, and political violence is on the rise, so I wouldn’t be shocked if one or more people decided enough is enough and conducted a “citizen’s kinetic impeachment”, as it were.
Regardless of how things ultimately turn out, things are definitely 10/10 fucky, and I absolutely hate it.
Unfortunately the “left” in the US is full of thinky ideologues and very few people of action.
Again it did not pass the 2/3 rule. That is critical to make it lawful. I don’t know why that is so hard to understand.
I get it. Trump is a sedacious bastards. But regardless they have yet to convict him of that in the legal court or within the Senate. Ones of those needs to have happened and it has not.
And by the way it is not uncommon. Was done to Clinton for what amounted to a private matter but again did not pass the Senate and thus it did not effect his access to office. As it shouldn’t have in his case.
It doesn’t require conviction. The amendment is written such that disqualification is automatic.
Plus Trump is a rapist.
Traitor rapist is not the horse I would have expected the gop to hitch their cart to.
But here we are
Christians love him!
He’s also allowed to run again despite declaring victory the last time, meaning that he is ineligible to run by his own reasoning.
Right? I mean if justice can be aborted/ sidetracked by a simple appeal, how effective is it? Surely he was found to be liable by a judge, the ruling should stand during the appeal, not be put on hold.
We’re available for purchase by the highest bidder!
I honestly do not think he will be allowed to take office. I just think things are moving at. Slow pace to make sure things are done correctly.
Probably in some hopes that he will just stop running on his own or something.
But I doubt that he will ever make his way back into office.
Who are these people supporting him, and how can we possibly go on living in the same country with them?
My thoughts exactly.
What the fuck is wrong with the USA?
- The Electoral College (and land based instead of population based representation)
- The Citizens United decision (unlimited money to campaign)
- First Past the Post voting (mathematically determined 2 party extremism)
Not necessarily in that order. Fixing any one would put the country many degrees to the left though.
He hasn’t been convicted of sedation yet and the impeachments did not pass the Senate for removal. Basically that is like an acquittal.
Agree what is wrong with the US but legally it is still up in the air.
This take is wildly ahistorical. Confederates were barred from office without being impeached. Impeachment is not mentioned in the 14th amendment at all. In fact, it explicitly mentions a remedy for people who have committed insurrection: the Congress can vote by 2/3 majority to reinstate an insurrectionist’s right to hold public office.
convicted of sedation
I thought that was Bill Cosby
Well that too with Trump and Epstein. But I may have meant sedition.
But it shouldn’t still legally be in the air. He’s already been proven to be a traitor.
I agree with that. Shouldn’t still be legally up in the air. Proven in public opinion, sure. Legal proven no.
Basically that is like an acquittal.
Not really. He has still been impeached, it’s just his own party chose not to remove him from office over the impeachment.
Yes we knew that. The point is legally he has been acquitted. Fair or not he has not been officially convicted and thus this can not be used to eliminate him from running for office.
I know people here don’t agree with it. I wish he was convicted myself. But it’s is not grey. It is ‘not really’. Your either convicted or acquitted and he was the latter because that is how the constitution works. Now use your vote should it come to that.
But it isn’t an acquittal, and he has officially been impeached.
It’s more like he was found guilty but then given no punishment at sentencing.
That absolutely is not what impeachments is. Look it up. Impeachments is equivalent to charging someone only. It then basically comes to the house to investigate it and decide if he is guilty. Guilty meaning removed from office. I don’t understand why people do not know this.
Ya I think he is slimy and likely should have been revoved from office. That that takes 2/3 of the Senate vote. But not getting 2/3 of the vote does not mean he is innocent.
Ah, yes, the well-known legal doctrine of “basically that is like.”
You’re either voting for America or Gilead.
Blessed be the fruit
Under his orange skin
ಠ_ಠ
I think that argument might convince people to vote for trump tbh. More and more it looks like the US had way too much power and uses it for evil and maybe voting for the dude that will cause its downfall will be the best thing for the rest of the world
As a part of “the rest of the world” I say you clearly : no. I don’t want Trump nor Gilead. I prefer corporate America other that.
Genocide and climate apocalypse, or genocide and climate apocalypse.
As a non-American, I beg you, get rid of Trump. You’re the most powerful country in the world, your election has so much impact outside your borders, we are looking at it and are expecting…
What happens in November ? We don’t know and it’s kinda scary…
As an American, we don’t know either and it’s terrifying.
Most of us know, and are just as terrified as you are. We’re just gerrymandered out of any ability to actually affect the process rationally.
Sorry not most, barely half. A fucktonne of the right still support him.
They’re only about a third. That’s not really solace, though. The Nazis only had about 30% support, as did Mussolini. That’s all it takes for fascism to succeed.
No, I’m sticking with most. We’re just gerrymandered enough that the smaller group can exert an outsized influence over the rest of us.
I like your optimism but unfortunately cannot share it. Too many IRL experiences to convince me that sane people are anything but a 30% minority nationwide.
We’re trying. 60 million of us (about 18%) are mentally defective backward degenerates that hold disproportionate power in our idiotic electoral system. The tyranny of this minority brought you trump.
We have little say in that. You need to ask pootin.
Yeah I’m so excited to vote for genocide joe over the criminally insane orange.
I’m excited to actually be able to vote in 2028. That’s what I’m voting for.
These names you keep giving politicians… Why?
Is it hatred against career politicians?
A way for people to remember bad things they’ve done?
Is it mostly tongue in cheek?Legitimately curious
Because they aren’t very bright and they need it to be simple. They’ve found a mindless mantra they can recite and, by golly, they’re going to keep saying it.
why is everyone mad that I hate both candidates lol.
I said it pretty clearly, I’m not happy that I have to vote for an incumbent who I didn’t want just because the alternative is objectively worse.
Also because I like calling people funny names.
why is everyone mad that I hate both candidates
I assure you, no one is mad that you hate both sides. They’re “mad” because you oversimplified a ridiculously complicated situation with huge global ramifications, in an attempt to equate both sides because you think holding that position makes you smart and independent…when in reality it is neither smart nor independent.
I didn’t equate both sides though, I said I hate Biden and Trump is objectively worse.
That doesn’t mean I’m not going to vote for him or not vote at all.
My whole point is that I am not looking forward to voting for him knowing that he is much much better than Trump, but that he will not change his policies, which I disapprove of.
Because the average voter is as mature as the average politician, I guess. ‘Of the people’ and all that jazz.
All of the above lol.
Genocide Joe because of his obvious involvement in Gaza and because of his copy paste foreign policy from the Obama administration
Criminally insane orange because he has been criminally charged multiple times, acts insane, and is also orange lol.
It’s just too easy to make fun of them because the two party system heavily restricts your ability to vote for a candidate that you actually want or need.
So every election period always starts off with a candidate who I almost always didn’t want or vote for, and immediately expect nothing from which is usually what happens.
There’s only one group of people that use that name, stop pretending to be moderate.
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uh what?
Wow I came here to get away from shitstains like you…
unfortunatly idiots like that are all over this place and completely remove the ability to have an actual rational discussion without them wedging that one topic into every fucking conversation
This is not ending with a Biden win. If Trump loses there are others waiting to take up the mantle. People that will look better (not physically) on paper so to speak. They will appeal to the more Traditional conservative, the mainstream.
A Trump loss will force MAGA back, after a bit of grumbling and violence, then they will become quiet. Not all of them. But the next fight will be 2026, 2028, 2030, etc. Though my belief thinks a better than Trump candidate will definitely be 2028 the next presidential election.
This Insurrection isn’t over for them…just like the Civil War never ended for them. They have patience.
We must remain vigilant and push for more equality for all.
The impossible needs to happen. We need constitutional amendments to further define and protect our democracy. But that would require those in power to be willing to close the gaps to limit individuals and party power, and I think very few in state houses (states have to ratify amendments) or Congress want to do that. It’s like the poor man who wants to protect the rich man’s wealth from taxes because someday he will be rich too.
A constitutional amendment will never occur again, because it is an incredibly high bar to overcome even when the legislative process in the country isn’t as dysfunctional.
One party would need a super majority in both houses of Congress, where the bar is 2/3 but you’re probably going to need at least ten more than that to prevent the amendment from being scrapped by a contingent of Joe Liebermans.
Then that same party will need a majority in the state legislatures of 38 states to ratify the amendment.
It’s just not going to happen.
Completely agree.
Although if we could get away from the partisan political mess we have now and get back to when members would work together instead of punishing them for crossing the isle there could be a chance. Maybe in 40 or 50 years, but that’s still a chance.
https://www.vox.com/2015/4/23/8485443/polarization-congress-visualization
A house divided and all that.
You also need to look around you and realize that you have been governed by authoritarian fascists for the past 100 years continuously
So then do nothing and not participate right?
That’s your stupid conclusion
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It’s not the scary foreigners. It’s “our” rich people who have bought out the system and molded it to their liking. Capitalism always turns into fascism as the system crumbles under its own weight unless something drastic occurs.
Funny story, it’s both
Would love to see the DOJ with this attitude…
Can’t wait for the supreme court he installed to vote to let us vote for him
It’s great to see this optimism here. Wish I could muster that. Everything he’s done seems so impossible to me but time after time he wins and wins and gets away with so many terrible things. There is an ocean of support behind this madness and it seems like things aren’t nearly different enough than they were 8 years ago. I once thought him being elected was impossible, now it feels almost inevitable. A star is collapsing and he is the black hole at the center. I hope you are right, I support these efforts and I’m not giving up, but man it’s hard not to feel futillistic when the horned beast arises from the gauntlet unscathed time after time.
Not if Thomas or Kavanaugh have anything to say about it.
I have zero faith in Thomas or Alito. Gorsuch and Kavenaugh, while bad overall, have managed to surprise me a few times. While both were appointed by Trump, they haven’t been the MAGA loyalists I expected so far.
Gorsuch actually wrote the majority opinion on Bostock v Clayton County, guaranteeing sexual orientation as a protected class. He’s also been a defender of Native American rights and his Originalist tendencies focusing on Founders Intent when it comes to legislation may be helpful since those actually barred from office following the Civil War weren’t convicted in a court prior to their prohibition from office. He also Clerked under Justice Kennedy.
Kavenaugh has always been a partisan. He was Counsel for George W Bush and the was an author of the Star Report leading to the impeachment of Clinton. His approach to the law involves strict interpretation of language, and less of a focus on intent. The question of whether the 14th amendment applies to the President will be a big part of his decision, as other elected positions are specifically named.
But he also Clerked for Kennedy, and has been less-partisan than expected from the bench. He’s the idealolgical center of the Court (the most-partisan justices are Alito, Thomas, and Kagan). He voted with Roberts (the least-partian justice) 95 percent of the time in the last term, and the justice with whom he disagreed more than any other was actually Thomas.
He was also the majority opinion on 96 percent of cases, though that’s a little misleading because the justices agree more than they don’t. The justice with the lowest rate of being in the majority last term was Thomas followed by Alito, who were still in the majority on 76 and 80 percent of cases, respectively.
And even Barrett could have been worse, though she’s definitely the worst of the 3, and even more painful is that she replaced RBG. Interestingly though, Dobbs v Jackson is the only 5-4 case where she joined the majority opinion during her tenure.
Idealogically, all 3 Trump appointees are closer to center than any of the liberal justices. I don’t like any of them, but the worst justices on the Court are still Thomas and Alito.
*any republicans
Welcome to 2024, the year the two party system wins the elections again, peasants keep getting exploited and the rich becomes richer
The two-party system winning would suck, but not as much as Trump’s one-party system winning.
If both choices suck just pick another one, you are not supposed to vote for any of them
Chugging lemon juice and chugging arsenic would both suck. I would much rather choose myself than leave that one up to chance.
You don’t get lemon juice if arsenic wins the election.
Yeah you aren’t guaranteed the result you want in an election.
I would choose water
The two party system winning over trump would truly be the biggest win of our lives.
yeah, a bunch of corrupted fascists and genocide supporters greedy for money who brought humanity to the bring of extinction with their wars and polluting the environment for profits winning again and staying in power would be the biggest win of your lives.
If we’re including the environment then it’s even more of a no brainer what a massive loss it would be for trump to win, he would undo and block as much as he could. Biden might not be doing enough, but at least we’re going in the right direction. Trump would make sure we go backwards.
If you think supporting a genocide is going in the right direction i have bad news for you
Oh so now all of the other things don’t count again? lol
Gimme a break. We said the same shit about Bush in 2004.
“Vote or die” was a huge campaign movement.
Can I ask how old you are? Because it was absolutely nothing like it is now in 2004. The vote or die thing wasn’t literal, it was just an attempt at a making voting cool to get young people out to vote.
I’m 34. There absolutely were people talking about a fascist bush/Cheney regime in 2004. Sure things are different now, but they’re still very much the same.
I’m 34. There absolutely were people talking about a fascist bush/Cheney regime in 2004. Sure things are different now, but they’re still very much the same.
If you are 34: You were at most 10 years old when Bush won in Nov. 11, 1999, and at most 18 years old when he left office. You were a child. You didn’t vote. You really don’t know if things were “very much the same”.
“You could never understand historical events if you weren’t literally alive and a full grown voting adult to see them”
What a fucking shit take. Have you never commented on a single thing you weren’t alive for? Stop being so reactionary, not every election is “the most important in our country’s history”. Again, gimme a break.
I would like to note that they only example you’ve provided to equate the two is that p-diddy used s common figurative saying in an attempt to make voting cool.
One can certainly understand things, to an extent, that happened when they were young or before they were born. But if this is the meat of your argument, let alone appearing to be the entirety of it, this is not one of those times.
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The good news is that a bunch of Trumpets are now convicted felons. Those idiots really thought the police were on their side.
To be fair I think a lot of police would have been on their side if they thought cheetolini had a chance at his soft coup.
FAR to many hard right cops
Some of them were the police.
Need guard rails to stop intersection in general, for all future A-holes.
Seems like we dragged this out almost on purpose so that it would become a serious election issue.
This should have been dealt with in 2020 and concluded with lots of jail time.
Why do I keep getting posts 24+hrs after they’re posted? I’m gonna guess timezones.
[X] Doubt
Press X to curbstomp a nazi
