The Trump administration is considering new restrictions on the Chinese AI lab DeepSeek that would limit it from buying Nvidia’s AI chips and potentially bar Americans from accessing its AI services, The New York Times reported on Wednesday.
Reminds me of when a business bans mention of it’s competitors because they know their own offering is trash (rather than make something they are proud of). I think it’s called Insecurity.
If the openly available China stuff is so great, make something great yourself if you want to compete with them. To instead ban it is to essentially hold americans down and reduce the quality of what they can do. So nah. Trash Trump decision. No one wants Altman as US AI posterboy. Don’t force people from openly available high quality stuff on to the Altman bandwagon.
A real company should be able to mention their competitors without fear because they are proud of what they made and genuinely think it’s the best and, if it isn’t, they are actively improving it to the point they feel it is.
This decision basically shows US AI insecurity, there will be a shift, and that Altman can’t compete with better people.
… the foreign-hosted servers, or the models themselves?
There are lingering questions, however, around whether DeepSeek engaged in IP theft to create some of its more competitive models.
They did, just like everybody else.
OpenAI has alleged that the Chinese lab distilled its models, violating OpenAI’s terms of use.
Oh that’s fucking rich.
competition is the best thing for market forces except when the competition is from a country that makes a competitive model that runs significantly cheaper or electric cars that are much better than any of Americas offerings
Conservatives don’t mean things when they say words.
Their stated ideals are ad-hoc justifications.
All that has ever mattered is ingroup loyalty.
They think that’s all you’re doing, because they think that’s all there is.
Conservatives don’t mean things when they say words.
Most accurate way of putting it I’ve heard yet.
With some things I get there is a national security risk.
However, we are taking about an AI model
Yeah it is easy to make things cheaper by making it so that factory workers have only one day off a month, with 7 day work weeks.
“The workweek was known colloquially as 996, which was shorthand for a week that went 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., six days a week. Not only did these hours exceed standard maximums, but employees also were rarely compensated for the overtime work. As TechCrunch notes: “Though technically mandating overtime pay for anything surpassing a standard five-day/40-hour work week, employers are known to avail themselves of a plethora of formal and informal methods for evading their legal obligations.” In August 2021, the Supreme Court and Ministry of Human Resources issued guidance that imposed limitations on this common work practice. Now, the legal workweek in China is supposed to be 40 hours a week and eight hours a day, with a cap of 44 hours in a week. According to China labor laws, employers may extend employees’ work hours by an hour per day, if agreed upon by the applicable trade union. That said, the China labor law also states that the maximum number of extra hours can’t exceed three hours per day or 36 hours in a month. And employees must be given at least one rest day for every week of work.
That said, it’s still too early to see whether the changes to the law will be upheld and enforced by Chinese authorities.
Employees are expected to receive salaries at least once a month. And that salary cannot be less than the minimum wage set by one of the 22 provincial governments. These wages are updated every few years and are adjusted to account for the region’s cost of living, level of development and local conditions.
In addition to salaries, employers are expected to provide social contributions to: Employee pension Medical expenses Housing fund Unemployment Maternity benefits Work-related accidents or injuries”
https://www.safeguardglobal.com/resources/blog/china-labor-laws/
And that’s coming from a western based company; western sources are generally skeptical of China and repeat dumb propaganda like what you’ve said. Why do you think companies are moving manufacturing of ultra cheap goods like clothing to Bangladesh and Vietnam? They need new places to exploit slave labor. China has the major bargaining chip in skilled labor and machinery for more advanced manufacturing though. Companies are still looking to move that but it takes significantly longer to do that and maintain quality (plus it’s very costly to do).
Chinese labor practices have been evolving for years. You may not agree with their government because it is spoooky communism but it is run in a goal oriented fashion that does intend to bring prosperity to its people.
Are you American? I am. And my job does not provide a pension, medical expenses, unemployment, maternity leave, housing, or workers comp. I have a masters degree and am licensed to provide healthcare but like many of my peers my industry has largely been converted to 1099 workers. Many of the people I serve are workers that work jobs like customer service and they also get none of these benefits because our government has failed us miserably. Also when’s the last time a cost of living adjustment occurred in the USA?
China has the disadvantage of having to industrialize much later than the United States. Further, their industrialization period was marked by being exploited for labor by the United States (much like how the rich upper class of the United States exploited children and the poor during its own Industrial Revolution). But coming out of their industrialization they are making strides to set up a more equitable society while we fall to constant political gridlock, increased wealth inequality and discrimination, violence, and now literally watching the few social support programs we have become dismantled in front of our eyes as fascism rises
Agreed with all that, but unless you are self-employed, you have worker’s comp. That is not optional insurance for an employer.
Like I said my industry (outpatient healthcare) is and has largely transitioned to 1099 workers. Independent contractors aren’t covered under workers comp laws. This also applies to many other 1099 positions which is far more common under the gig economy.
This extremely inequitable treatment is why some companies like doordash have volunteered to provide a minor amount coverage:
Medical Expenses: Up to $1,000,000 with no deductible or co-pay. Disability Payments: 50% of average weekly wage, up to a maximum of $500 per week, minus other income.
They likely do this to avoid the potential of scrutiny and regulation that would increase the likelihood that the government mandates they provide more substantial workers comp or other benefits
Contracting is the loophole here and it’s why I guarantee more and more industries will transition to 1099 positions over the next decade barring regulation. It’s the easiest and fastest way to erode the bare minimum worker protections that the USA has
The whole point of US and European companies moving manufacturing to China.
Ive tried DeepSeek, it’s not even that good. ChatGPT, Google, and even Grok are better and offer more features, like image generation and web search, while DeepSeek only has chat (and reasoning, but all the others have that too now).
The only thing DeepSeek has going for it is that they released their models for free so you can run them on your own hardware if you want.
that’s a big fucking benefit though
You mean being able to run them locally? Sure, if you got the hardware to do it. The full size model is a whopping 404 GB, good luck running that on consumer hardware.
I run the 16b version. It works fine on my laptop on the CPU.
Sure, that’ll work. It’s just not as smart as the full version.
Deepseek is much better than anything else I’ve ran. It has an inner monolog which allows it to solve more complex problems.
ChatGPT and Grok have that too now. It’s called “Reason” (ChatGPT) or “Think” (Grok).
You can’t run those locally though so that doesn’t natter much
I guess I forgot what community I’m in 🤦♂️
All good
Funny that they hate Deepseek so much, but not any of the other popular Chinese AI models.
That’s good, it’s the US so I won’t care. The rest of the world will continue on without you
Having said that, fuck all AI
deleted by creator
Reportedly, they’ve built a ton of extra AI datacenters they don’t even use. I thought they were just misappropriating government funds, but maybe that was an intelligent strategy. I wonder if that’s enough to bridge the gap until they have their own silicon in mass production.
I don’t think this is the case at all. You can’t build AI data centers en masse ghat quickly
What do you mean? The Chinese are known for government-coordinated megaprojects… They regularly build entire city districts pretty much over night. And it’s not really quick… They’ve been at it since almost 20 years. And I believe in 2016 they released their national 15-year plan to ramp up power plants and AI in order to become the global AI leader by 2030.
We can see how in the times before AI, they were able to build large Bitcoin farms quickly (before they banned it) and by today, their AI industry publishes quite some models, papers… So I don’t really see a reason to question this. Or is there anything I’ve missed?
- https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-has-spent-billions-of-dollars-building-far-too-many-data-centers-for-ai-and-compute-could-it-lead-to-a-huge-market-crash
- https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/chinas-ai-data-center-boom-goes-bust-rush-leaves-billions-of-dollars-in-idle-infrastructure
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_industry_in_China
It’s not about the building. It’s about planning out the electrical grid to support hundreds of megawatts - for every single campus. They consume more power than everything else. 24/7.
Along with liquid cooling, which is mandatory now for an ‘AI data center’. Air cooling cant cool that much power.
Buildings with less power are just regular data centers, not AI centered.
Such dumbasses, even if this was a good strategy, they’re still banning one company and let others (arguably more dangerous ones) go scot free
Weren’t they already not allowed to buy nvidia chips?
only the high end models not the lower, now trump has banned the lower end models as well
How exactly would they ban them? DNS poisoning?
They just say you’re not allowed to use them and that its illegal but can’t really stop people from doing it.
I’m not sure if the title is clickbait… Because that’s not in the following text. The article says they want to ban Nvidia from selling more hardware to them. It doesn’t say anything about limiting availability of the service or anything.
If they do, my best guess is they do it like with TikTok. Change their stance on everything several times and then they don’t really enforce anything.
you can just download the deepseek models and run them locally I don’t see banning it being very effective
