• Hellahunter@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Well, I’d argue Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals, which most of us are not.

    I’d even argue is Nancy even a dem at this point she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.

    • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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      5 days ago

      Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals

      Yes which is much closer to who the Dems are representing as a whole

      • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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        4 days ago

        No, based upon the popularity of policies, AOC is FAR closer to representing normal people than more conservative democrats like Pelosi are?

        There is a reason people hate centrist corporate democrats, it is because they don’t even pretend to push policies people desperately need.

    • frostysauce@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.

      And that perfectly represents the party as a whole.

    • StaticFalconar@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      While Nancy’s actual politics may be more centrists than dem, shes still one of the old guards that must go away for any actual change in the party.

        • Allonzee@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          Dems are a far right party that only look centrist if you squint looking at them from inside fascist crazy town.

          To basically anyone in the developed world, of which we are not, Luigi murdered a mass murderer, to any fascist or neoliberal here, we have to let murderers for profit let the free market decide who gets life saving healthcare, as just 1 of innumerable examples.

          Neoliberals don’t squee like little girls at the hello kitty store when people suffer and die needlessly when it facilitates private profit as the Fascists do, but they don’t see it as the social fabric betrayal and atrocity it is either. “free market forces, mr dying homeless person, but I support your right to die in the gutter of hunger and exposure as any identity you choose!” Because it’s free to, but people need their basic survival met first, and that takes resources that go to them and not the robber barons that pay off both parties.

      • Hellahunter@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        I totally agree with you she must go, she’s part of the let’s maintain the status quo dems.

    • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      You know “centrist” is not a political party, right? Fuckin kids these days, what are they teaching you…

    • JeSuisUnHombre@lemm.ee
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      5 days ago

      That’s a funny take. The former speaker of the house who hand selected her replacement and was the leader of the Democratic caucus for more than a decade, and you’re basically calling them a DINO

      • peregrin5@lemm.ee
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        5 days ago

        MAGA regularly calls Mitch McConnell a RINO. Why should we handle Nancy any differently?

            • peregrin5@lemm.ee
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              4 days ago

              It means that a true Democrat or Republican is one who represents the views of their constituents. Not who holds the reins of power in their respective parties. This is a valid definition.

              • JeSuisUnHombre@lemm.ee
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                3 days ago

                I don’t believe that is a valid definition. A good politician is someone who represents the views of their constituents. A true Democrat (or whatever party) is someone who represents the views of the party. The views of the party may be influenced by party candidates on behalf of their constituents, but those views are decided upon by a group of people that aren’t elected by a public ballot and have no obligation to democratic voters. If you don’t like the platform of the party, you’re supposed to go join a different party (but we’re kinda fucked with that right now). If you’re talking about who represents the views of the democratic party, it’s difficult to find someone who represents them better than Pelosi.

                • peregrin5@lemm.ee
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                  3 days ago

                  Instead of valid definition I should have said a “good definition”. There is no real definition of a “true Democrat” or vice versa for Republicans. Both your definition and my definition are valid definitions.

                  If you don’t like the platform of the party, you’re supposed to go join a different party

                  The other option is to slowly replace the members of the party in positions of power. Why do you think AOC is encouraging young people to run for office? She has the right idea.

                  The fact of the matter is that the US has a two party political system. This isn’t changing unless one of the parties gains power and essentially gives it up to implement a new system.

                  Another fact is that young people aren’t running for office so all of our politicians are part of the gerontocracy and all hold particular views from having been born in a generation most of us no longer relate with.

                  The only way to change things is to get young people into office at the lower levels and work their way up by building political careers until they are the ones in the positions of power in the DNC.

                  The ones who will hold the reins and make change happen are the ones who actually decide to run for office. This is the system of the United States that allows it’s citizens to control what happens in the higher echelons of government.

                  Yes voting is a part of it but it sounds like you are unhappy with the choices you are given to vote for and that’s purely because the people you would like to vote for are not running for office and winning. If they are running and not winning that is because they are not popular with the public which is another conversation but I think the majority of you are getting stuck in the “not feeling like doing anything but protesting” phase and not actually running for office.

                  • JeSuisUnHombre@lemm.ee
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                    3 days ago

                    I still don’t think your definition is valid or good and I didn’t really see any argument that said otherwise. Immediately after the part you quoted I did say “(but we’re kinda fucked with that right now)” which was in reference to our 2 party system, so yes I understand that part.

                    The other option is to slowly replace the members of the party in positions of power.

                    This isn’t changing unless one of the parties gains power and essentially gives it up to implement a new system.

                    in the positions of power in the DNC.

                    Statements like these reveal why the definition I stated is more accurate. That there’s a party line that politicians in that party are expected to follow. You use those statements to argue that we should be trying to change what that party line is, which I take no issue with and seems to be a goal of AOC and some others. But we’re talking about who is a better example of a Democrat which has zero meaning without the democratic party. And Pelosi is an excellent example of what the party is while AOC is an example of what you would like the party to be. You do need to recognize where the party is before you can figure out how to steer it in the direction you’re hoping for.

                    And you’re right about this being a different conversation but I still want to say a little something about

                    If they are running and not winning that is because they are not popular with the public

                    Because this seems like a pretty naive sentiment. First because a large percentage of the public simply doesn’t vote. Also the current tribalism of our 2 party system is the most important thing for many if not most of those that do vote. But most importantly, having good and popular ideas or even saying good and popular things is not what gets you elected in this country. Our political system relies on the advertising model. If you package it right and put it in front of enough people, it doesn’t actually matter what is being said. That’s how someone like Trump gets elected. Which I guess is a form of being popular, but I don’t think that’s what you meant by it.

                    Here’s an incongruity that applies to both conversations. A supermajority of democratic voters support government run healthcare, but it’s nowhere to be seen in the DNC platform.