• GhostPain@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      4 days ago

      Except the US doesn’t have a cheap, easily available source of titanium.

      The stuff we used for the SR-71 and F-14 had to be gotten surreptitiously from the Russians.

      That’s why the Space Shuttle didn’t have the titanium heat shield it was designed with and had to rely on the newly invented, much more delicate, ceramic heat shields. Which, it can be argued, resulted in the all of the deaths of the Challenger crew.

      • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        3 days ago

        No, the ceramic heat shield killed the Columbia crew.

        The Challenger crew was killed when a leaky SRB blowtorched the big orange tank. The SRB leaked partially because of an imperfectly designed seal and partially by being flown outside of its design limitations regarding temperature.

        • GhostPain@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          3 days ago

          Mea culpa, you’re right. I was misremembering.

          So with the original titanium heat shield the Columbia crew wouldn’t have died such gruesome deaths. All because Congress was cheap.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 days ago

            It is my belief as a pilot and aircraft mechanic that both accidents share a critical design flaw: The crew vehicle for some bizarre reason was carried next to its rockets instead of on top where it belongs. It meant that Challenger had no way to escape, no launch escape tower could take them away from an exploding lower stage, and it put Columbia in a place where debris shed by the lower stage could hit it. Nothing could fall off of an Apollo first stage and hit the capsule because it was a hundred feet ahead.

            • GhostPain@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              3 days ago

              Not a rocket scientist so I can’t say.

              But I’m betting a room full of them and NASA engineers thought through all of their options based on the criteria and current tech.

              • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 days ago

                Having been to NASA and seen their museum and the launch pads and shit and gotten to talk to people who work there:

                You’d think they thought it through, but small details get missed all the time in Nassau history

                • GhostPain@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  3 days ago

                  I mean, sure hindsight is 20/20.

                  But Columbia would have never happened if Congress hadn’t pulled funding for the titanium heat shield they wanted.

            • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              3 days ago

              The issue is that they wanted to really pump up the reusable launch vehicle part, so it couldn’t be this little thing on the top with 4 SRBs.

              They died for the marketing.

              • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                3 days ago

                When basically all of your “lift” is coming from thrust, sure it does. As if the space shuttle stack was a work of aerodynamic genius.

                  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    3 days ago

                    And it was vectored down through the floor at the center of mass somewhere in the big orange tank, which is why the shuttle always did a sick Tokyo drift off the pad.

                • technowizard22@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  3 days ago

                  Thrust from rocket engines(or jet engines) is not lift. The force they genarate is perpindicular to the focre genarated by lift. All of the lift being genarated in front of the CG would cause the rocket to pich over and crash back into the ground.

                  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    3 days ago

                    I’m going to bet that we won’t see another spacecraft of the same plan as the shuttle. We barely got it to work, the Soviets managed a single unmanned test flight of something similar, and we’ve got vertically landing reusable rockets now. Large space planes I think are a dead end.