It’s disrespectful towards animals to project on them human emotions. Cats definitely have feelings but they are feline, mutually incomprehensible with us, although definitely partially communicable
No emotions are communicable as emotions are qualia. However you can describe an experience or experiences that give you similar emotions, and if the other person feels quallia for those experiences they will assume you have the same.
Is your red the same as mine? We cannot ever say. But does your red happen when you see something I’d also call red? Most likely (unless you’re color blind).
The same is true of emotions. Maybe when you lose a loved one, you feel the feeling I do when I’ve accidentally hurt someone in a way I feel I can’t undo. Both are pain, but we will never know if the pain we feel for any specific experiences are the same because all feelings are incommunicable.
Now emotions typically have physical effects too and it is likely that people with similar bodies have some sort of qualia you can reference using the experiences that are associated with them “I feel cold” “I feel weak” “my body feels heavy” etc. Or maybe someone already can predict that they’d feel a specific qualia if they went through what you describe, but that’s never guaranteed.
Unfortunately you don’t have the option of verbal communication with a cat, but you do have physical effects. Furthermore, emotions arise from experiences yes? Remember how you can assume someone has a qualia for cold because they’re human and you’re human so if you experience a qualia corresponding to cold then likely so do they?
Well ennui is listlessness caused by lack of stimuli yes? We most likely feel it because we’re “predators” and have the desire for stimuli and engagement. The same can be said of cats. Ergo, it is entirely possible they could feel an emotion corresponding to it just like us. I would be more surprised if most animals did not feel boredom.
Thank you for a detailed answer! I know about qualia somewhat and agree with you on every point but only with the degree of uncertainty that you show - you say “entirely possible” and “we can’t be sure” because of the same ideas you express earlier that feelings and emotions are immeasurable (maybe there is some top notch neurological method for quantifying/qualifying emotions or will be in the future but none that I know of) - we can’t be sure even with people, like you meet a person who seems to be sad and you approach them and ask what’s wrong you look sad and they would go like no it’s fine it’s just how my face looks like.
My idea is only that it’s stupid to say things like oh my cat is sad or dog is happy or tortoise is feeling fine, we just don’t know and talking with certainty about things we don’t know and can’t measure is dangerous in my book. Disrespectful is a word that came to mind because many animals suffer from abuse, but simply talking about their emotions is at least not abusive. With people we can at least verbally communicate ideas of our emotions but with animals we can’t at all. Maybe cats have something similar to boredom, maybe not; ennui feels like an even more strong and complicated emotion, so seems to be even less likely
I wrote some bullshit in the similar sarcastic manner and accidentally posted it and deleted immediately, it was just cringe
I’m not arguing against reality here, yes emotions and feelings (I never mentioned soul btw) are neurological, they emerge in the brains, we are animals, other animals have nerves, nervous systems, brains, they definitely have feelings amd emotions and some definitely should overlap like those that you’ve mentioned. But do animals feel love? Passion? Regret? Sorrow? Loneliness? Resentment? OP’s question was about ennui, my point was that whatever their cat is experiencing it won’t fit into the category of human emotions that we created based on our observations of our psyche (that appears to be far more complex as compared to other animals) for us to use in communication with other people and that whatever animals are feeling they won’t be able to communicate to us. It’s fine to say “that dog looks happy” assessing its emotional state by means of empathy, but saying “that dog is happy” would make me want to ask “how do you know that, did it tell you?”
Also sorry for sounding like a condescending prick or too defensive, I honestly just wanted to share an opinion on animal rights in general, I’m not trying to convince anyone, if they think their pet is happy, that’s great
There are behaviours pets do to express sorrow. If their friend or owner dies, they will respond. they don’t just walk it off. If they are experiencing pain, they will attempt to alert with a change in behaviour.
It doesn’t require magical tricks like an animal speaking to you. just have some basic observance skills what with living with said pet and experiencing their average behaviour compared to sudden behaviour changes.
I saw recently probably on youtube a person saying that their cat was transgender. I think that is insane and disrespectful to animal but some people just have opposite ideas I gues. I’m not saying that OP is the same crazy for asking the op question but I still think that we should consider animals to have animal feelings unknowable to us and respect that by assuming only the most basic ones like when they are hungry or hurt or feeling the yeeees when you scratch that spot
It’s disrespectful towards animals to project on them human emotions. Cats definitely have feelings but they are feline, mutually incomprehensible with us, although definitely partially communicable
No emotions are communicable as emotions are qualia. However you can describe an experience or experiences that give you similar emotions, and if the other person feels quallia for those experiences they will assume you have the same.
Is your red the same as mine? We cannot ever say. But does your red happen when you see something I’d also call red? Most likely (unless you’re color blind).
The same is true of emotions. Maybe when you lose a loved one, you feel the feeling I do when I’ve accidentally hurt someone in a way I feel I can’t undo. Both are pain, but we will never know if the pain we feel for any specific experiences are the same because all feelings are incommunicable.
Now emotions typically have physical effects too and it is likely that people with similar bodies have some sort of qualia you can reference using the experiences that are associated with them “I feel cold” “I feel weak” “my body feels heavy” etc. Or maybe someone already can predict that they’d feel a specific qualia if they went through what you describe, but that’s never guaranteed.
Unfortunately you don’t have the option of verbal communication with a cat, but you do have physical effects. Furthermore, emotions arise from experiences yes? Remember how you can assume someone has a qualia for cold because they’re human and you’re human so if you experience a qualia corresponding to cold then likely so do they?
Well ennui is listlessness caused by lack of stimuli yes? We most likely feel it because we’re “predators” and have the desire for stimuli and engagement. The same can be said of cats. Ergo, it is entirely possible they could feel an emotion corresponding to it just like us. I would be more surprised if most animals did not feel boredom.
Thank you for a detailed answer! I know about qualia somewhat and agree with you on every point but only with the degree of uncertainty that you show - you say “entirely possible” and “we can’t be sure” because of the same ideas you express earlier that feelings and emotions are immeasurable (maybe there is some top notch neurological method for quantifying/qualifying emotions or will be in the future but none that I know of) - we can’t be sure even with people, like you meet a person who seems to be sad and you approach them and ask what’s wrong you look sad and they would go like no it’s fine it’s just how my face looks like.
My idea is only that it’s stupid to say things like oh my cat is sad or dog is happy or tortoise is feeling fine, we just don’t know and talking with certainty about things we don’t know and can’t measure is dangerous in my book. Disrespectful is a word that came to mind because many animals suffer from abuse, but simply talking about their emotions is at least not abusive. With people we can at least verbally communicate ideas of our emotions but with animals we can’t at all. Maybe cats have something similar to boredom, maybe not; ennui feels like an even more strong and complicated emotion, so seems to be even less likely
I’m gonna go with wow.
мом
Right,… how dare other animals experience hunger, fear, anger. Only humans have the soul to own the full cannon of feelings. Apathy engaged!
I wrote some bullshit in the similar sarcastic manner and accidentally posted it and deleted immediately, it was just cringe
I’m not arguing against reality here, yes emotions and feelings (I never mentioned soul btw) are neurological, they emerge in the brains, we are animals, other animals have nerves, nervous systems, brains, they definitely have feelings amd emotions and some definitely should overlap like those that you’ve mentioned. But do animals feel love? Passion? Regret? Sorrow? Loneliness? Resentment? OP’s question was about ennui, my point was that whatever their cat is experiencing it won’t fit into the category of human emotions that we created based on our observations of our psyche (that appears to be far more complex as compared to other animals) for us to use in communication with other people and that whatever animals are feeling they won’t be able to communicate to us. It’s fine to say “that dog looks happy” assessing its emotional state by means of empathy, but saying “that dog is happy” would make me want to ask “how do you know that, did it tell you?”
Also sorry for sounding like a condescending prick or too defensive, I honestly just wanted to share an opinion on animal rights in general, I’m not trying to convince anyone, if they think their pet is happy, that’s great
There are behaviours pets do to express sorrow. If their friend or owner dies, they will respond. they don’t just walk it off. If they are experiencing pain, they will attempt to alert with a change in behaviour.
It doesn’t require magical tricks like an animal speaking to you. just have some basic observance skills what with living with said pet and experiencing their average behaviour compared to sudden behaviour changes.
deleted by creator
Insane response
I saw recently probably on youtube a person saying that their cat was transgender. I think that is insane and disrespectful to animal but some people just have opposite ideas I gues. I’m not saying that OP is the same crazy for asking the op question but I still think that we should consider animals to have animal feelings unknowable to us and respect that by assuming only the most basic ones like when they are hungry or hurt or feeling the yeeees when you scratch that spot
Fair point with a more extreme example. Reminds me of my Hindu prof who makes her dogs eat vegan lmao, I’m plant based but that’s too far for my pets