EXCLUSIVE: Carl Baxter, a MAGA fan who heads up a county Republican club in Florida, is suing the Koch Brothers’ Americans for Prosperity over alleged discrimination
The difference is that racists are not bears. They’re people behaving poorly. I think this is better compared to a thief getting robbed by his partner in crime. Is he a fool? Yes. Is he a bad person? Yes. Can I blame his partner in crime for this? Also yes. In both cases it’s an idiot and a bad person walking into a position that another person behaved poorly towards them.
Are bigots and racists more like a bear that is obviously hazardous, or are they like your friend that betrays you.
I truly believe they are more like the first one if you just listen and think about the things they constantly say. But maybe that takes more critical thinking than I should expect from the average person.
Don’t think friend that betrays you, think criminal who you may feel you can work alongside, but demonstrates no loyalty to you beyond direct gains.
If we treat them as bears we ignore the capacity to change that is the very thing that damns them. You, me; and everyone here knows damn well that very few bigots change. And I’ve more than heard enough from bigots to know how monstrous some of them are. My existence happens to be political at the moment.
When a person decides to pick a fight with a particularly large and territorial member of the order Carnivora I place sole blame on the person and not the ursine participant because the person is a person and the bear is a bear. When a person decides to interact with a bigot of their own free will I have no sympathy for them and still blame the bigot because the bigot had the choice to change and I’m not going to let bigots off the hook for being a bigot. So really, it’s that either party could’ve averted this situation rather than just the one, and both should’ve.
You, me; and everyone here knows damn well that very few bigots change
because the bigot had the choice to change
So I like how you’re giving them agency and saying it’s on them to change. So my perspective is an extension of that. They are adults, I expect them to behave like one and/or be ready for the consequences.
So if someone knowingly acts as hostile as a bear, imo you should treat them like a bear to further discourage said behaviour. Imo its the biggest issue today, especially in politics (Harris’ campaign is turning it around it seems).
When someone acts horribly and in bad faith, you can’t act back in good faith and give them the benefit of the doubt or “realize their capacity to change”. You call them weird, you treat them like a bear.
I think the difference is in how you and I treat bears lol. I treat bears as valuable members of an ecosystem that’re best kept in the wild, though can be glorious to view from a distance. I treat bigots like losers who need to be stopped because they’re going to hurt someone. We mock them, we keep their victims safe, and most importantly we make sure that they don’t get their way. Please don’t treat your local wildlife like that.
I recognize their capacity to change in that by applying sufficient pressure I can make them quit being so on this weirdo bullshit. They may stay a bigot but by the gods we can shut them the fuck up.
And I guess really the crux of my original stance is that if anyone deserves racism it’s a bigot, they’re experiencing hate like they express, but I don’t think anyone deserves racism. I’d rather he face no racism than any, so long as it means there’s no racism being faced by non bigoted people either.
I do agree with pretty much all that you’re saying. Especially the part that ideally, we are all human and human suffering (like experiencing racism) should be minimized.
Maybe it’s my age, but I guess I assume there will always be bigots and bad actors out there, yes we should actively fight to minimize it, but at the same time, after all those minimization efforts, we should still want and expect people to have critical thinking.
I guess even though bad actors aren’t good to have, I view them as almost a necessary evil (similar to how a bear is part of the ecosystem) so people learn about evil and critical thinking. Having said that, we are have waaaaaay more bad actors today than necessary.
Kind of but let’s say:
Someone offered you to fight a bear for $5k.
He assures you the bear is safe.
People around you tell you it’s not, and don’t be an idiot.
Is it your fault if you chose to take the con man’s offer and fight the bear or the con man’s fault?
I started thinking about this after the titanic submarine disaster. Like, how is that not like a Darwin Award?
The difference is that racists are not bears. They’re people behaving poorly. I think this is better compared to a thief getting robbed by his partner in crime. Is he a fool? Yes. Is he a bad person? Yes. Can I blame his partner in crime for this? Also yes. In both cases it’s an idiot and a bad person walking into a position that another person behaved poorly towards them.
So what it comes down to is:
Are bigots and racists more like a bear that is obviously hazardous, or are they like your friend that betrays you.
I truly believe they are more like the first one if you just listen and think about the things they constantly say. But maybe that takes more critical thinking than I should expect from the average person.
Don’t think friend that betrays you, think criminal who you may feel you can work alongside, but demonstrates no loyalty to you beyond direct gains.
If we treat them as bears we ignore the capacity to change that is the very thing that damns them. You, me; and everyone here knows damn well that very few bigots change. And I’ve more than heard enough from bigots to know how monstrous some of them are. My existence happens to be political at the moment.
When a person decides to pick a fight with a particularly large and territorial member of the order Carnivora I place sole blame on the person and not the ursine participant because the person is a person and the bear is a bear. When a person decides to interact with a bigot of their own free will I have no sympathy for them and still blame the bigot because the bigot had the choice to change and I’m not going to let bigots off the hook for being a bigot. So really, it’s that either party could’ve averted this situation rather than just the one, and both should’ve.
So I like how you’re giving them agency and saying it’s on them to change. So my perspective is an extension of that. They are adults, I expect them to behave like one and/or be ready for the consequences.
So if someone knowingly acts as hostile as a bear, imo you should treat them like a bear to further discourage said behaviour. Imo its the biggest issue today, especially in politics (Harris’ campaign is turning it around it seems).
When someone acts horribly and in bad faith, you can’t act back in good faith and give them the benefit of the doubt or “realize their capacity to change”. You call them weird, you treat them like a bear.
When they go low, they got a knee to the face.
I think the difference is in how you and I treat bears lol. I treat bears as valuable members of an ecosystem that’re best kept in the wild, though can be glorious to view from a distance. I treat bigots like losers who need to be stopped because they’re going to hurt someone. We mock them, we keep their victims safe, and most importantly we make sure that they don’t get their way. Please don’t treat your local wildlife like that.
I recognize their capacity to change in that by applying sufficient pressure I can make them quit being so on this weirdo bullshit. They may stay a bigot but by the gods we can shut them the fuck up.
And I guess really the crux of my original stance is that if anyone deserves racism it’s a bigot, they’re experiencing hate like they express, but I don’t think anyone deserves racism. I’d rather he face no racism than any, so long as it means there’s no racism being faced by non bigoted people either.
I do agree with pretty much all that you’re saying. Especially the part that ideally, we are all human and human suffering (like experiencing racism) should be minimized.
Maybe it’s my age, but I guess I assume there will always be bigots and bad actors out there, yes we should actively fight to minimize it, but at the same time, after all those minimization efforts, we should still want and expect people to have critical thinking.
I guess even though bad actors aren’t good to have, I view them as almost a necessary evil (similar to how a bear is part of the ecosystem) so people learn about evil and critical thinking. Having said that, we are have waaaaaay more bad actors today than necessary.
When a bear is eating your face you dab his chin with a napkin is the other guys point.