The panic is starting as the reality that the war is lost sets in - Lemmygrad
lemmygrad.ml

What I have learned:

  • Russia has already won the Ukraine war
  • Which NATO started
  • A lot of people in the West think that Ukraine should surrender
  • Also Ukraine was the world’s main provider of CSAM
  • Also Ukraine is exploited by the West but if they can unite with Russia then their economy and everything else will finally be alright

It’s literally like a bizarro world and everyone is over there agreeing with it. I’m genuinely confused by, who even are these people (what is the mixture of Russian bots / Russian-aligned ordinary people / confused Westerners / some other explanation.)

  • mozz@mbin.grits.devOP
    2·
    6 months ago

    What do you think started, and kept WWI going

    • An entanglement of defensive allegiances
    • Increased industrialization meaning that nations could field an army undergoing massive attrition for years and years without suffering a crippling lack of production at home, and
    • Lack of understanding on the part of political leaders of how the face of war had changed

    narrative. Every party believed or was sold that they could win this thing if they just kept climbing the escalation ladder.

    I mean… not really. Surely, at the time, the “dangerous” narrative was anything against the war. To me, allowing a freer flow of ideas would have helped to resolve the war sooner, and deciding that certain narratives were dangerous and should be stayed away from (leading to difficulty in understanding what was happening) was a factor that made things worse, not better. No?

    For a start I would not do X, Y and Z, this is the whole idea of realism, accept the world as is. Threats work, I’m sorry.

    I am glad that you are not involved in the foreign policy of either Ukraine or any country I care about. There is realism, sure; the world is not always a comic book where being righteous is enough. Then, also, there is cowardice, and then beyond that there is saying that someone else who is rejecting cowardice is to be blamed (along with anyone who gives them assistance in standing up) for danger they find themselves in as a result.

    Ukraine seems likely to be able to hold on to a significant chunk of their territory and self determination, after deciding to pay a heavy heavy price for it, in homes and cities and money and lives and anything else. You can take your condescending stuff about realism and whose decision that was, and what kind of lives under Russian rule they should be resigning themselves to instead, and shove it up your ass.

    • arymandias@feddit.deEnglish
      0·
      6 months ago

      You seem to conflate questioning a narrative with banning a narrative, I have the intent nor the means. I value being able to have an open discussion on topics as important as war, especially based on substance rather than resorting to personal insults and such.

      • mozz@mbin.grits.devOP
        1·
        6 months ago

        No, I’m disagreeing with the idea of describing a narrative as “dangerous” as a reason to criticize it, instead of whether it’s true or not. To me, whether it’s a sincere and accurate description of the world is the main thing.

        I’m being rude to you because, to me, you’re being wildly insulting to the Ukrainian people. Sorry. Maybe it is uncalled for. But I know some Ukrainians. Telling them to lie down to Russian aggression because of “realism,” and criticizing the resistance their country is putting up, is way more insulting than anything I’ve said to you.