all of the land there belong to Palestine, so the Palestinians working towards a secular state on land that was stolen from them is ethnic cleansing?
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say, “Yes, a solution that involves ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing” and the right to self-determination doesn’t really affect that fact?
The land was changing hands for centuries: https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY
(and if we care about silly things about who was first, that would historically be Jews)
In fact before the British, it was actually owned by the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) which sided with the central powers in WW1. The British enrolled Palestinians and Jews to fight them and promised to give them that land in exchange for conquering it.
This history is about WWI, not WWII. The Ottomans didn’t exist in WWII and Turkey stayed neutral. The Ottomans allied with the Germans in WWI, but it wasn’t the Axis.
Well no, before the British arrived the land belonged to the Ottoman Empire. Before that it belonged to the Byzantine/Eastern Roman empire, Roman Empire, Greece, Persia. It hasn’t been a “free” land since at least the mid to early Iron Age.
Edit: Even then, it was only free from the end of the Bronze Age, where it was a smattering of city states either part of or beholden to primarily the whims of the Hittites, Egyptians or Assyrians.
I can also add that in the Bronze age there was a critical trade route used to get Tin from now-Afghanistan to the eastern Mediterranean, and a lot of the city states in that area were basically stopovers on that larger route or between the big empires in the region.
Also going further back into the stone age, the entire area was considerably less of a desert than it is now
There’s no record of the expulsion ever actually happening, but they did get pissy and rename the region because the people wouldn’t stop rebelling and worship the Emperor like civilized folk.
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I’m gonna go out on a limb and say, “Yes, a solution that involves ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing” and the right to self-determination doesn’t really affect that fact?
The land was changing hands for centuries: https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY (and if we care about silly things about who was first, that would historically be Jews)
In fact before the British, it was actually owned by the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) which sided with the central powers in WW1. The British enrolled Palestinians and Jews to fight them and promised to give them that land in exchange for conquering it.
Edit: I meant WW1
This history is about WWI, not WWII. The Ottomans didn’t exist in WWII and Turkey stayed neutral. The Ottomans allied with the Germans in WWI, but it wasn’t the Axis.
You’re right my bad
surprisingly, there were people there even before the Jews. they are not some indigenous population that sprung from the soil.
Yes, I never said there weren’t, just that people picking up specific point in history and forgetting there was anything before that.
you said that if we cared about historical things then the Jews would be the first. it was this statement that prompted my reply.
Would be before Palestinians.
I suppose that would depend on how you define Palestinians. but the point remains.
Well, by the definition you are suggesting, the Jews would also be Palestinians.
there was also a group already in the area referred to as the Philistines. a young David is rumoured to have killed Goliath.
Well no, before the British arrived the land belonged to the Ottoman Empire. Before that it belonged to the Byzantine/Eastern Roman empire, Roman Empire, Greece, Persia. It hasn’t been a “free” land since at least the mid to early Iron Age.
Edit: Even then, it was only free from the end of the Bronze Age, where it was a smattering of city states either part of or beholden to primarily the whims of the Hittites, Egyptians or Assyrians.
Can you speculate as to why the area is seemingly so desirable?
Geographically, It’s located in the best place to be THE door to Europe’s and Africa’s trade routes with Asia.
Whomever controls that territory, controls an immense amount of the world’s commerce.
It’s much less important now thanks to the Suez but still a decently wealthy coastal country.
That makes perfect sense, thank you.
I can also add that in the Bronze age there was a critical trade route used to get Tin from now-Afghanistan to the eastern Mediterranean, and a lot of the city states in that area were basically stopovers on that larger route or between the big empires in the region.
Also going further back into the stone age, the entire area was considerably less of a desert than it is now
You realize the name Palestine is what the Romans renamed the land to add insult to injury after kicking out all the Jews.
that feels like not was quite some time ago.
There’s no record of the expulsion ever actually happening, but they did get pissy and rename the region because the people wouldn’t stop rebelling and worship the Emperor like civilized folk.
You mean the Ottoman Empire? Is that supposed to be the same entity? I have no fuckin’ clue anymore.
Modern Turkey does claim to be the successor state to the Ottoman Empire, yes, and was recognized as such in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.
Yes, but anglophone white people did it, so it doesn’t count.