Its just an instance where tankies can exist in an echo chamber without having to critically think.
If you want you can read some of my comments here and watch these morons make fallacious argument after falacious argument, put words in my mouth, and project some person who makes similarly bad takes which exists inside their head onto me: https://lemmy.today/comment/17304484
Edit: there’s also this thread: https://lemmy.today/post/32415724/17304693
I don’t consider Hexbear to be an “echo chamber.” A true echo chamber, isolating oneself from views that go against someone’s current viewpoints, is only possible if your viewpoint aligns with the dominant views of the society you live in. Communism in the english-speaking internet and world is fringe. Nobody on Hexbear can truly avoid engaging with liberalism as a daily requirement for their existence, everyone has to exist in the outside world and touch grass at some point, be it for work, errands, engaging with friends, family, etc.
What is possible to create an echo chamber around, is blocking off leftist viewpoints. Blocking Hexbear just reduces the chances of yourself running into views that challenge your existing viewpoints. The reason why Hexbear bans liberalism and anti-communist viewpoints is because you can find them anywhere on the English-speaking internet, it gets pushed heavily by mainstream media and permeates discussions even about social reforms like healthcare. Hexbear making a space safe to engage with other communists who just want to hang out doesn’t actually close off viewpoints.
Looking into your comments you linked, you threw around words like “authoritarianism” and “technofeudalism,” without really describing or understanding each. It comes across as you trying to figure out a way to describe a Socialist system that restricts the rights of capital owners in a negative way, without trying to understand why the overwhelming majority of Chinese citizens support their system and believe it to be generally on the right track. I recommend glancing through this Socialism with Chinese Characteristics Study Guide to see how and why the Chinese system works, and why one would support it.
All in all, I think blocking Hexbear if you don’t like echo chambers is actually counter-productive, as you cut yourself off of a large portion of the Leftist userbase on Lemmy, thus restricting what you see to a more narrow subset of generally “progressive liberalism.”
" A true echo chamber, isolating oneself from views that go against someone’s current viewpoints, is only possible if your viewpoint aligns with the dominant views of the society you live in.
Hexbear blocked carnivore@lemm.ee for going against their viewpoints.
It is a true echo chamber. But if your general point is it’s okay to be an echo chamber, because it’s impossible to live your life without being exposed to other ideas… Fine, but that doesn’t change the fact they are an echo chamber as a platform
They also ban fascists, liberals, etc. Hexbear is pro-animal liberation, they don’t want to see glorification of mass consumption of meat all the time. This is a silly point, you can’t actually go your life without seeing meat being eaten, but that doesn’t mean you have to see it everywhere you go. Same with porn, porn is censored, does that make it an echo chamber?
I think you ignored my points, why does Hexbear count as a “true echo chamber?” What does that even entail?
As you conceded it’s a echo chamber but it doesn’t isolate people from the realities of their daily lives.
I wouldn’t really call that an echo chamber, then. An echo-chamber is where you are only exposed to one side of viewpoints, that’s largely impossible for Hexbear users but is entirely possible for, say, Lemmy.world users. The alternative is to let liberals, fascists, etc roam freely, harassing users and creating an unsafe space for marginalized comrades that use Hexbear precisely to avoid such situations for a tiny portion of their lives.
If you had any self-awareness at all you’d have died of embarassment by now
No guys, Hexbear TOTALLY doesn’t brigade threads, whaaaaat?
I’m shocked that Redditorsstill haven’t learnt how Federation works.
Well not that shocked
Its just an instance where tankies can exist in an echo chamber without having to critically think.
Buddy, you’re the one blocking them. You’re not in a position to accuse other people of being in an echo chamber.
watch these morons make fallacious argument after falacious argument
Unlike you, making such sound and well reasoned arguments as “lol no” and “Have you been living under a rock?”
Congrats! We’re all so happy for you! Extremely well done!
Oh hey! It’s the guy who thinks posting videos of Uyghurs is how you dunk on Hexbear, without even knowing what Xinjiang is. Then, without a shred of irony, accuses Hexbear of not critically thinking :o
You might genuinely want to consider how that behaviour is incredibly 'echo chamber’y. Repeating an opinion without knowing the first thing about the actual facts?
I just didn’t know the name.
Well, exactly.
Do you not agree it’s a bit silly to suggest mocking people for their view of an issue, when you don’t know the basic facts of said issue? If I found myself doing that, I’d personally be a bit concerned about what I am choosing mock.
Idiot
Oh no! Did those scary ideas that conflict with US State Dept propaganda hurt your little bitty ego? Did you not get the pat on the head you expected for your bold, approved by the neoliberal order takes you so graciously bestowed upon Hexbear? Lmfao.
And as can be seen from the behaviour of all the .ml’ers in this thread, you really should block that instance as well. They are the same people, just using different accounts to spread their hateful fascist stupidity.
Got to cultivate that echo chamber
Communism isn’t fascism, and to conflate the two is a serious miscalculation. Communism/socialism are historically worker-centric systems and ideologies, while fascism is best described as capitalism, only when the bourgeoisie needs to employ violent and extreme measures to protect their ownership of private property. As a consequence, communist-led violence is violence against the minority of society, the oppressor capitalist class, while fascist-led violence is against the majority, the working class, as well as the marginalized in society.
I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds.
I’m pretty sure last time I read a thing you sent me and replied, you just told me to read more things.
I don’t really remember that, but reading is always good.
Not if you’re doing it purely for clout.
I guess, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. Who reads for “clout?”
Your whole profile is “I’m a leftist theory guru”. And then you don’t actually have anything to offer when engaged.
I have never said I’m a “leftist theory guru.” I do read a good deal of theory, but there are many here who have read a lot more than I have. I have read enough to know when I see something wrong, though, so I try to help correct it.
I have no idea what you mean by saying I “don’t have anything to offer when engaged.” Further, if you think I read what I read for clout on a tiny, fringe website, then that’s absurd. If I wanted clout for reading, I’d go to Twitter or Bluesky, or even YouTube, where the audience is far larger.
I recommend you read up how communism actually worked, how oppressive of a regime it was and how many people died because of it. And yeah, communism is just as bad as fascism.
I have, actually, and I recommend you read up on how socialism actually works, including how it doubled the life expectancy of those in the USSR, tripled literacy rates to 99%, ended famine in countries where underdevelopment made famine common, brought free, universal healthcare, full free education, more vacation days and lower working hours, and more.
The PRC today is Socialist, and is responsible for the largest reduction in poverty in history, as well as some of the most rapid levels of economic development in history.
Communism is good, fascism is horrendous. Fascism was horrible for 99% of people, in countries like Germany there was industrialized mass murder, workers were kiloed en masse for organizing, and the rights of women and minorities were curbed. Socialism is good for the 99% and bad for the 1%. The Tsarists, capitalists, etc had their property confiscated and even were killed, while the 99% achieved great feats.
You definitely should Blackshirts and Reds. Further still, equating communism and fascism is a form of Naxi apologia, it originated with Double Genocide Theory which attempts to trivialize the holocaust and demonize socialism to make Nazism seem not as bad as it actually was.
82·6 days agoHaha, I setup some stuff to keep look at the logging (as discussed a few days ago), and it’s funny how I can correlate this post with a small uptick in bots accessing the B&R page.
Oh wow! I always wondered if my comments actually get people to check out the pages and books I link, I’ve tried to focus more on explaining things in my own words unless a book or article is extremely relevant and quotes necessary (people sometimes saw my older style of quoting Marx, Lenin, Engels, etc as book worship, which is fair critique IMO).
That’s actually really interesting!
Yea, we’ll see in the future. Right now it was just bots, so I assume the post got federated to these websites and then they went out to get title, description, and opengraph stuff to show.
Ah, gotcha, that makes sense. Federation is interesting.
Sure you did read up on all the attrocities. But all I need to do is read an online article that will be a total 180 from what my grandparents, parents lived through, their struggles. Grandpa’s family will totally come back from Siberia and they will be 18 forever.
Dude, fuck you. You know nothing about communism. It is a scourge and you are part of the problem.
I wonder if the discourse here and elsewhere suffers from the perspectives used to approach the topic initially. Asking the question of “how do we get this system to work,” rather than just submitting to the failed outcomes of well-known examples. Most people don’t want to create a system by which one or a small group of people can prosper at the detriment of the larger community. I think understanding how these systems affect their populations on a granular level is the only way we can find/create the best system.
Why would I EVER want communism to work? Would you “sit down” and start thinking “how do we get Nazi Germany to work”? Of course you wouldn’t.
Well, by “working” I mean providing a framework for all of its citizens to pursue prosperity and happiness. “Working/success” would mean that none of the atrocities were able to happen, and different leaders would have been selected.
Did you read up on all the atrocities caused by capitalism? Have you looked into the US gulag system? Its literally a plot point in the Andor series.
“wHaTaBoUt”
Yes, whatabout.
Because you can’t dismiss one system unless you’ve resolved the parallel conflicts in the replacement.
I’ve read dozens of books, hundreds of articles, and continue to read. The overwhelming majority of those who lived in the USSR want it back, this is a well-known phenomenon. Over 7 million people died due to the dissolution of socialism in the USSR, prostitution, drug abuse, poverty, disparity, all skyrocketed while life expectancy plumeted thanks to the utter destruction of the economy and the elimination of social safety nets.
Well over 90% of Chinese citizens support their government, even from western survey. Socialism in China lifted 800 million people out of poverty, and is combatting climate change and regularly improving conditions for its people, without relying on imperialism like western countries do. This is charting a genuine alternative to the naked plundering of the west towards the global south.
I am not going to trust one person’s anecdotal experience vs the legitimate and long-term study I’ve done, the people who lived in the USSR, PRC, etc that I’ve spoken to and spoke positively of them, and the ongoing process of decay capitalist countries are in while socialist countries are steadily developing and improving. Go ahead, rely on the assumption that I must be stupid or ill-read to support a worker-centric economy rather than the absolute system of plunder that is crumbling. Keep doing Nazi apologia by equating a system of industrialized mass murder with a system that doubled life expectancy, democratized the economy, provided free and high quality healthcare and education, over tripled literacy rates to 99.9%, and more. Stay in your right-wing echo chamber formed by anecdotes and refuse to read anything.
If anecdotal evidence means shit, let me add mine too. I grew up (yes, me, not my parents, or grandparents) in a communist state in India, and it was great lol. Does that now mean that I get to deny all the legitimate criticisms of the system or that particular government? No. That’s not how it works you dumbasses. People give too much credence to anecdotal experience, even though it’s the most unreliable of all.
Absolutely. There are real problems with socialist societies of all kinds, but on the whole they are positive. You can find positive anecdotes in the worst societies and negative in the best, what’s important is doing the due dilligence to study what went right and what went wrong truthfully. Thanks for your anecdote!
it doubled the life expectancy of those in the USSR
Does that include political dissidents, homosexual people, and economic criminals? Oh those people were executed in droves? My mistake.
Don’t waste your time on cowbee, he’s well spoken and slightly more polite than the rest of his ilk but he’s just as murderous as the rest of them, it’s just harder to get him to take his mask off.
Yes, it includes Nazis, the White Army, capitalists, etc. Gay people weren’t executed, the punishment was 5 years imprisonment, which is still awful but was better than other countries at the time. Calling me “murderous” for supporting socialist countries is laughable when you make shit up, lmao.
I don’t put on a “mask,” I’m openly a communist. I make it clear that I’m a Marxist, specifically a Marxist-Leninist. I have more patience than most, I’d say, but that doesn’t mean I “hide” anything.
The mask is the “no we totally don’t want to murder people…except these people we decided should be murdered 'cause they’re Kulaks.” The quiet masky part is the “actually murder is good when I dislike someone” bit.
And forgive me, I was confusing Cuba executing gay people for the USSR, small whoopsie, and I’m sure none of the USSR gay people were worked to death in a gulag during their bid, nooo never.
Yeah defo a tankie. The absolute gall of these people to lecture the descendants of the victims of communism, about how great it was.
You described capitalism! Bravo!
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Get dunked
Gottem!
Horseshoe theory isn’t real lol
Free thought, or aimlessly contrarian?
You could pretty much swap in flat Earth theory here and it would still make perfect sense.
I could swap in Humorism into there and it still would make perfect sense.
Lol, who’s side are you on?
I point out that your argument is nonsensical and pointless, and you ask which side I’m on? The one that tells you “You have a brain. Use it.”
If you really want to make an argument that stands, try a little harder. I want people that are supposedly “free thinkers” to have the capacity to show it, and currently you don’t. I could’ve just told you to “Figure it out” and you most likely would’ve failed.
Also to answer your question:
The team that I'm on
Humourism is a thing. Y’know, Hippocratese wrote about it. They used to do bloodletting to balance the humours, that one?
You’re a lost cause
It’s so funny how defensive and upset ml users are here
Do you people have a template for these posts or something? They’re always the same nonsense
Do you mean you hear an echo in this chamber?
If you blocked them then how are you replying to all their comments here?
Need more bait posts like this to help expand my blocklist, just got so many. Thanks OP!
We wouldn’t want you to be exposed to any viewpoints outside the Western propaganda cannon, that would be too much intellectual effort
Yeah cause .ml and .hexbear are toootally not propaganda echo chambers.
They are less echo-chambery than Lemmy.world, in my opinion, as Lemmy.world largely aligns with the status quo and as such cutting out communists means you aren’t exposed to communist perspectives at all, while on Hexbear, which is less broadly federated than Lemmy.ml, you still can’t avoid engaging with liberalism when off of Hexbear.
In other words, Hexbear is a place carved out for communists by communists, but Hexbear users can’t actually avoid interacting with liberals. Lemmy.world, on the other hand, aligns with the status quo, and cuts out viewpoints that go against that, meaning they can avoid engaging with communists to a far greater degree.
They aren’t, no.
“no guys it’s totally not an echo chamber, we just ban and/or relentlessly attempt to troll anyone with a differing opinion than ours!”
I’d say it’s an impressive level of cognitive dissonance, but then, you’d already have to have that to believe China is a socialist utopia. Really it’s just Tuesday for them.
I said it elsewhere, but a space where the dominant opinion is fringe among the general population is not really an echo chamber, while one where the space aligns with the dominant views and bans dissenting views is. You can’t avoid engaging with the dominant ideas of society.
Secondly, I have never seen anyone say the PRC is a socialist “utopia.” It’s socialist, yes, but not a utopia. Marxism is anti-utopian.
Got to cultivate that echo chamber
Right? Filter out enormous swathes of obnoxious shitheads from your feed in one fell swoop!
And here I am, back again, adding more blocks to the list lmao. Goddamn I love this, their brigading makes it so easy to block them, they just gather themselves all in one place for you, EZPZ.
-Complains about “echo chambers”
-Blocks comm because of diverging views
No I blocked it because it’s an echo chamber. Are you able to read? Did you see what I said in this post?
Sounds like you want it to be an echo chamber.
I mean you’re welcome to post a competing view and argue it competently from an intelligent well reasoned position grounded in fact… you haven’t done that though, and you’re complaining that people who have done that who are refuting your hot air are an “echo chamber”.
It’s like going onto a maths forum and saying 0.99999…≠1 with zero substance to your claims only vibes and then having multiple people show proofs in various different ways to show you that infact 0.999999…=1 and you blocking the maths forum and calling it an echo chamber.
When everyone agrees on a fact its cause its a fact
