• BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 year ago

    Antinatalist here - the rhetoric in that post is horrible, and is not representative of antinatalism as a whole.

    Antinatalism isn’t the belief that a certain group shouldn’t reproduce - it’s that nobody should. The world is fucked, and nonconsensually bringing anyone into it is morally reprehensible. It’s not eugenics, it’s voluntary extinctionism.

    For the people that have been born, however, everyone deserves respect and equity. Ableism, or any other kind of discrimination, is just wrong, and makes you a shitty person. Just like the person who made that post.

    • r3df0x ✡️✝☪️@7.62x54r.ru
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      4 months ago

      This is an incredibly dumb idea. It will also die out for incredibly obvious reasons because everyone else will keep reproducing while antinatalists descend into irrelevancy.

      Genesis 1:28 and al-Baqarah 2:187 instruct reproduction. Antinatalists are destined for the fire.

    • Lt. Worf, son of Mogh@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      It’s not eugenics, it’s voluntary extinctionism.

      “Don’t worry guys, that person doesn’t represent us - what they should have said is that they wish for all of humanity to die out.”

      This is an absolutely insane thing to advocate for. I hope you come to realize that in time.

      • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 year ago

        I’m not saying we should kill people, I’m saying making more is wrong.

        It is a nonconsensual act whereupon you are forcing life and all its travesty onto another being, when they were perfectly fine not existing.

        Call me insane if you want, I couldn’t care less. Humans are a plague upon both other humans and this planet as a whole, and bringing someone else into the world to be both a victim and perpetrator of the issue is wrong.

        • Lt. Worf, son of Mogh@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          I think your perspective about life is blinded by pessimism, and you’re treating that pessimism as absolute fact. Many people view life as a wonderful thing, are thrilled to exist for the time that they do, and see creating a new life to experience the wonders of living as a gift.

          Humans are a plague upon both other humans and this planet as a whole

          You’re sounding like Agent Smith from the matrix. Come on. Unplug from the negative feedback loop for a bit.

          • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            You call it pessimism, I call it realism.

            There are good things to experience, yes. If you’re already alive, then by all means, seek to find happiness and enjoyment. Don’t force someone else into that endless struggle. You can make no guarantees that their life won’t be one of pure suffering, and that’s not a risk I’m willing to take.

            And again, we are destroying this planet - not just for us, but for all life on it. We are the problem.

            • Lt. Worf, son of Mogh@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              You call it pessimism, I call it realism.

              Says every person with depression ever.

              I agree with the other commenter recommending therapy. When you don’t see it as “life is pain and the future is hopeless”, you might sound less like a scifi villain calling for human extinction.

              • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 year ago

                “Existence is suffering” is a foundational tenet for many worldviews and religions, not just antinatalism. Existence is literally the first cause to all suffering - no existence, no suffering.

                Acknowledging that doesn’t make me depressed or pessimistic, it’s just acceptance how things are.

                You’re free to live in whatever fantasy you want, though. That’s your right.

                Also, responding to differing worldviews with “get help” is generally bad form

                • Lt. Worf, son of Mogh@lemmy.ca
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                  1 year ago

                  Your worldview is literally calling for the extinction of all humans. You need to come back to reality and stop convincing yourself that this is normal or healthy.

                  • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes, it is. And I’m just fine, I prefer not to live in idealistic delusion

                    Maybe educate yourself on the actual philosophy

        • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Dude if people really have such a problem with life, they can in fact opt out of it at pretty much any point down the line.

          • GreenMario@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            So if your kid doesn’t want to fight in the water wars you’re just gonna say “lol kys nerd”? Tragic.

            • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              Firstly, I don’t have a kid. Being sterile (and also just not wanting any), I am quite unlikely to ever have a kid. Ideally we as a society would work to avoid water wars happening. My point is that we should improve our collective state of affairs somewhat, rather than resigning ourselves to the idea that to exist is to suffer like a bunch of loser doomers.

              • GreenMario@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                There’s no fixing to this shit and deep down you know this.

                I saw how humanity got together to deal with COVID. Spoiler: they fucking didn’t.

                What a garbage species we are.

          • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            If someone experiences so much suffering that they are pushed to “opt out of it”, it would have been better not to force them to live and experience the suffering in the first place. Just because someone can take themselves out of it doesn’t make the suffering okay to inflict.

    • Cylusthevirus@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Wow, the Church of Shar exists in the real world.

      I think your belief system is a rare example actual Evil. You’re literally advocating for the elimination of music, of art, of science, of anyone who could even appreciate those things. No more Rembrandt or Dali or Mozart or … anything. And you’ve gotten so twisted up inside, ostensibly because some people live sad, hard lives, that you think that’s a good thing.

      Dude, find a therapist. This is no way to live.

      • norbert@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Brother if you think advocating for less population is “actual Evil” you’re in for a real hard time out in the world.

        • Lt. Worf, son of Mogh@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          They’re not advocating for a lower population. They’re advocating for human extinction.

          As in, we should all let the torch of consciousness burn out. I don’t know if I’d call it evil, but it’s definitely one of those severely misguided takes that you almost exclusively see on the internet.

      • snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Isn’t it just the belief that nobody should have kids though? I’d have thought the while extinction part would rank higher than the culture loss. And evil seems a bit extreme, sounds more like apathy and loss of hope to me. Not saying there aren’t some messed up people in the group though.

        • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          sounds more like apathy and loss of hope to me.

          Yeah, this. My biggest issue with the fundamental anti-natalist position is that it’s a totally blackpilled one that ultimately devalues any positive experiences life brings when compared with even the potential for any bad thing to happen, regardless of magnitude.

      • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 year ago

        I’m advocating for the elimination of poverty, disease, death, pollution, war, hate, and all human suffering.

        Sure, there are some neat things in this world that are worth experiencing if you were forced to live. If you’re already alive, of course you should seek to find happiness and enjoyment in the little time you have.

        Still doesn’t justify forcing more people into the world to exacerbate the problems we have - overpopulation being a major one.

        It’s not evil. Things were fine before us, and things will be fine after us.

        • Cylusthevirus@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          “Things” were not observable by anything with the capability to designate them as such, so no they were not “fine” in any meaningful sense of the word.

          You’re literally doing the speech the villain does to make him seem reasonable.

          I am literally begging you to find a therapist.

          • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            Semantics, but if you really want to get into it, a lack of ability for things to be good or bad is still better than the existence and perpetuation of suffering.

            Also, responding to differing worldviews with “see a therapist” and comparing them to a villain is fucking disgusting