The chilling effect this causes will make communities even more like echo-chambers, as dissent will be pre-emptively squashed.

If only there was a tool that allowed you to host an instance on a federated network that allowed you to make your own community and control how the rest of the network can interact with it. Why has nobody built this???

Curious about this if you can expand upon it without doxxing yourself.

Often software success is measured by adoption. Let’s say tomorrow a turn key persona management system existed.

The most institutionalized levels of success possible is to be coopted by and contract out to an intelligence service (immediate pass, even the attention, immediate pass). However that means that such a system must unknowingly solve the problems of:

1. the features that are absolutely required for said service
2. the ease of migration of operations onto said service
3. be completely self evident to many at that service to be an answer for their problems
4. be a person that they could feel they could trust or manipulate into control

Very unlikely.

Another level of success is adoption in the general ecosystem. So now the DSA’s, PSL’s of the world can run persona management easily. Not really a big socialism success given you literally said it yourself it’s a tool that if proliferated creates a “broad distrust of social media”.

So who are gonna be the biggest users of such a tool? Open your phone and look at your texts. That’s right the people who are shaking down grandparents, the people who are pretending to be a rich celebrity that has taken an interest in a lonely isolated person living in a rural community, scammers, flim flam artists, NFT enthusiasts, crypto bros.

The problem is that there is already a “broad distrust of social media”, that doesn’t stop humanity from using the communication tool, and that doesn’t lower the total incidences of exploitation that happen.

If I had an implementation of “a turnkey internet nuke”, I’d be booking a flight to Beijing before releasing it on the open internet

Lol China would not have you. This is a movie plot. They don’t want guys who make “rocking the boat technology” at all. You think they’d want some OSS enthusiasts running experiments with apes commenting on the net in their green zone? They have their own versions. They have their own trusted operators. This is like adoption with any other intelligence service.

In general the problem with this technology is literally like nukes. It shouldn’t exist. It’s easier to make social systems without its existence. This tech doesn’t change anything, it makes a better integrated version of desperate components of an existing system.

If tomorrow at the same time everyone woke up with a turnkey nuclear bomb, Israel would pre-emptively nuke Gaza.

come around on social programs.

Wat.

Anarchists are the ones who are consistently making social programs from scratch. Direct action is and has always been about feeding people as well as sabotaging bulldozers.

https://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/

Strongly agree that something like this is needed. However, what enables the asymmetry here is a limitation on material resources and labor. No such limitation exists with digital systems that cannot be trivially copied and deployed by bourgeois interests.

Only idea I have for something like this is a system that requires user verification by existing members, possibly gatekept by irl meetings and capped at some rate per user. Few people use the fediverse because of tiny barriers to entry. No one would tolerate a system that imposes more burdens.

DDoS prevention solutions are probably capable of thwarting most technological solutions we can come up with to create our own asymmetries.

The root of your perception here is correct, the bourgeoisie will always have “promoted posts” for their personal interests, but that is no different than any censor or editor that exists today.

You are also correct in the economies of scale, my point is that we have always been playing catch up and these tools allow us to catch up significantly as well. These tools raise our capability floor to heights that were not possible before.

Do you have any specific knowledge on the characteristics, capabilities, or implementation of these? I would be very interested in learning more.

Pega and Capado are the advertising ones. Sock puppet is a commercial offering targetted at OSINT, “to protect researcher identities”.

The knowledge we have of the US government ones are from things like Operation Earnest Voice where they contracted out development to Ntrepid.

Most software out there isn’t a highly capable consistent package. I’m sure the CIA or Palantir has one developed, but a lot of places just run developer tooling like Playwright to control Chrome. Prior to LLM’s any procedural text generation was done via Markov Chains and sentiment analysis thru keyword analysis (e.g. regex).

There are some OSS tools out there in various states of quality like:

• https://github.com/dimensi0n/persona
• https://github.com/malwaredojo/loki

I did a whole bunch of research on this as I thought it would be a fun challenge to build one, I wanted to make it OSS, but I decided against it after I generally thought about what “success” would look like, I was basically thinking of building a turnkey internet nuke.

Typically your keywords are “persona management”, “sock puppet tools” etc.

Posting internet comments is the one form of media that proletarians can easily participate in to reach the masses without outright gatekeeping by an editor

Be for real lol. You’re posting on one of the only places on the internet that isn’t completely owned by the bourgeoisie. Your reach is already limited by segregating yourself on this site. Pretending that posting on “the internet” (e.g. the biggest sites) which is mostly controlled by gigantic bourgeoisie interests and petite bourgeoisie interests is a purely proletarian act is silly. In practice “freedom to post” is ancillary to feeding you advertising. You are playing in their sandbox and have always been. The enshittification of the 2010’s blurred the lines between content and advertising intentionally because the smallest advertisers who refused to pay for ads already started doing that in the late 2000’s.

This creates an asymmetrical playing field where corporations and NED orgs can spend lots of money on GPU farms to push their messages, but prole groups cannot nearly as easily.

You’re just competing over different resources. Prior to the mechanization of this through any software you were competing for bodies doing the posting (whether the medium was internet, newspapers, leaflets, pamphlets, word of mouth etc doesn’t matter). With augmented mechanization prior to AI you were competing for bodies and compute. Now you can argue you mainly compete over compute. However because of the fun logic of capitalism, in the current state of capitalist organization proletarians can afford compute more than they can afford to feed other proletarians amortized over time. So this really only boils down to “humans are becoming obsolete in the posting wars”, which was already true.

The inherent contradictions in capitalism make it effectively impossible for this technology to be really gate kept from proles over time without a literal crackdown on ownership or development. The cat is so out of the bag there’d be a civil war if the bourgeoisie started drawing lines on who can own what things for the “greater good”. The US could not even keep a lid on encryption software over time, despite export controls for encryption still being a thing.

So even if we built ourselves a life raft with the fediverse / Lemmy, we are still trivially subject to large scale influence operations, even if less valuable as a target. It seems like big tech is aware of efforts to avoid corporate control over public opinion

This was already true before 2020. The type of software that major botnets/intelligence services/ad companies specializing in guerilla advertising is called a Persona Management System. These systems mechanized the dissemination of posting and conversation shaping across the internet. It has only really been in the last 8 years that Persona Management has been a thing that exists outside of intelligence adjacent circles.

What AI does is it makes running / developing Persona Management Systems easier. You no longer have to make a cohesive overarching strategy to make things feel organic for humans, you can simply be “good enough” with AI and that’s always what these systems campaigns aim for.

Don’t get me wrong this is an acceleration, but it’s not an acceleration that brings us to a “brave new world”. Yes the owners have new toys, but they haven’t been able to prevent us from using them. Likewise if this was a real “information war”, this becomes a war of logistics like every other war. It becomes necessary for proles to find a tactic that allows them to make the equivalent of a Hamas piss rocket or a Quds drone, something that is incredibly cheap but because of the capitalist state of the world requires a wasteful amount money to defend against. For every dollar in prole spend we make them spend $1,000 against it.

Smaller sites are already protecting themselves using proof of work systems like anubis to prevent AI crawling. Anubis is a great example of making them pay more. If Hexbear/Lemmy implemented anubis, it would be a slight annoyance for us an extra 1-2s browsing. However for an AI crawler running at scale to “take over the community” it would create a significant financial disadvantage because at scale the costs for running a hashcash for every interaction would balloon.

This isn’t even new for reddit. They seeded the original site back during the 2005-2007 years by paying people to run sockpuppets to simulate the network effect. They’d post about tech before, the subject matter they’re posting now is a level of degeneracy that only comes with an IPO.

CW: Ablism

If capital cannot profit off of you, it will kill you. Autistic people tend to be bad at the wage work capital demands of us - hence why so many of us are chronically unemployed.

This is an important point. We should remember that this means that the most realistic worse-case model they have to cleanse us en masse is corporate private prison contracting where some Trump friendly dipshit gets $25k/per body a month from the Fed to warehouse us in a concrete tomb.

They cannot kill us cheaply and we aren’t actually a balance sheet problem because there is realistically social spending for the majority of us. They’ll starve all disabled and poor people before they single us out in any effective way. We might be a trial balloon, but it’s extremely unlikely that we’ll get it nearly as bad as migrants.

Autism is just a political talking point for their shit for brains NT base who doesn’t want to be shown anything on the TV except their own shallow world view, and for the people who they talk about the TV with in public to never tell them the TV is wrong. We’re just a means to an end, effectively to get society to agree to the fact that kids should die of measles.

America in 2025 is utterly incapable of mega-projects like Japanese internment, the government has been too hollowed out. They spent $1.1 billion in 2025 dollars in the 1940’s just to build the camps alone using the US Army Corps of Engineers, the CCA and WRA. They were mostly public works. Doing something of this size is going to be a major in-fight between oligarchs on who gets this money, and it won’t be $1.1 b done over a year, it will balloon to hundreds of billions and be stuck in development hell because of all the inefficiencies.

A single prison today typically costs $1b. For example Indiana is currently building a new prison for $1.2 that holds 4,200 people. They started in 2023, they’re expected to finish in 2027.

Don’t get me wrong people will be hurt, but we are so laughably incapable of 20th century style population transfers.

Yeah he has. I am 50:50 on if he actually believes that or it’s shoe horning stuff into Trump’s policy agenda. I think he literally believes that we cannot work so how would labor camps even work? His whole “wellness farms” stuff was funny because bringing back RFK Jr. designed sanitoriums during a fascist austerity government after Regan happened is a nonstarter. I do not believe that RFK is going to be able to put together a network of camps and the mechanisms to round people up into them. ICE under Trump is less effective than under Biden/Obama but is more brazen. There’s like several steps that here that aren’t going to be easy, and it’s a game of numbers not just if you’ll get got by the RFK HHS but also if the RFK HHS will be able to get you at all.

I think RFK’s average case success scenario for this is having some high profile arrests and claiming mission accomplished.

Remember that these systems were actually made effective or outright built by competent technocratic ghouls during the Democrat run government years. Bush’s war in the middle east was a failure, Obama mechanized it and turned it into a success (politically speaking because he removed American troops from the political equation). Biden adopted Trump’s border policy and made it work effectively and proved it out in the stats and Democrats were complaining that the evil fascists of the GOP weren’t giving them credit for being good effective fascists.

What about the HHS classifications/work providing a basis for categorization for Federal LE action, ‘rounding up’?

My personal risk profile doesn’t match this because there is no diagnosis. I think it can represent a real risk for others.

My opinion on this is that I think this is an RFK pet project that he’s shoe horning into DJT’s world view. I don’t think RFK is long for being HHS secretary, because Trump doesn’t like him and they are both guys who cannot share the spotlight.

There is real risk to real people from the Trump admin, but I think we have to temper the assessment of that risk with the political instability and the incompetence of a cartoonish fascist government. They are more effective with ICE and dissident management this time around because they had 4 years to plan, and they had several successful trial balloons between 2016-2020. I think creating pathological or technical criteria for the rounding up is something that is needed for a technocratic fascist positioning very much a Dem party thing (Think: You can’t support Hamas they’re terroristorinos!). Trump has been signaling that he’s literally trying to fuck over those who simply disagree publicly. You do not need pathological criteria to rile up your base for that. Democrat, dissident, and anti-American are labels that can do that job just as effectively.

It’s also not actually about the practical population transfer but imposing control. If they really wanted to get rid of autistic people esp. kids on the cheap they could do it through federal austerity faster/easier than putting us all in camps.

I can be wrong, but I just don’t think RFK’s agenda is going to be durable and mesh with the overall WH goals and this they have 6 of these types of pots on the stove so I’m not betting on RFK being a danger to me.

Also, idk if this comes off as risky to discuss publicly given everything, but do you mean having your passport for leaving later or that you already have and keeping it current is important (because obviously). And where are you considering for places to go other than the U.S.?

No I’m not leaving. I was naturalized as a child and the immigration law at the time did not provide children with their own naturalization documents. My proof of citizenship is my old collection of US passports, current passport / passport card. I can pay $5k for the INS to print me a certificate, but lol cmon.

This is my de jure defense of “I’m not fucking going to El Salvador”, my de facto one is I keep that thing on me. My conditions for leaving the country are if it’s not going to be possible for me and my partner to live here from an economic / personal safety POV. We aren’t planning on children so I have it easier than most, and from the outside I can pass as “normal” from a ND/political POV. A lot of this stuff is very much “don’t rock the boat” signal.

I have been at peace with the fact that I could be deported under US law since I was a teenager, so this isn’t really anything new to me. This is just surviving. I’m doing my dailies.

Yeah I’d almost never disclose ND status regardless of what it is and to what bureaucracy, it’s almost always bad, and it’s almost always on me to fight for any kind remedy regardless of disclosure. The liberal rules around disclosure esp. in the work place are effectively meant to make ND people more vulnerable. The standards protect only those with visible physical disabilities to a extremely minimal degree.

The only things protecting us have been HIPAA. That’s actually the worst part about RFK’s database, given that the government just leaked Abrego Garcia’s wife’s address to their stochastic psycho contingent.

In fact, it would not surprise me if suddenly they start picking up random US citizens and just declare them autistic.

I have my doubts about this because they are already doing this through ICE and they have said they are going to do it for people who disagree with the President regardless of their citizenship status.

RFK’s HHS is not going to out-compete ICE to create a general gestapo model, it already exists, has for a long time, in multiple different modes. It’s just that it was much more polite before.

I’m much more scared about keeping my passport up to date, and being denaturalized than I am about RFK’s goofy autism caregiver based genocidal ideas.

The old approach has a lot of downsides esp. for our more visible comrades who need support.

I had looked into autism diagnosis as an adult and there are basically no upsides. It’s expensive and you’ll have to fight doctors for it, and you’ll be given a piece of paper that doesn’t mean anything to anyone. There are no real resources (the ones gated by neoliberal austerity that require the paper) for autistic adults in the US from what I’ve seen. For adults it seems to be “just be thankful your support level is low”.

Nobody is going to check your papers and kick you out of a support group or meeting for not having them.