adroit balloon

says the troll

says the troll

Germany=Nazi joke

not funny

eh… I believe you have your controlled substances mixed up…

note the dates. it was forcibly annexed by a coup government

the facts don’t support your assertions. even if they did, it’s irrelevant because….

the later vote to join as a state took place well afterwards

just as I said and the facts I gave support. since 94% of people voted to become a state, no rational person would call it an “occupation”.

YOUR ARGUMENT is that the result of this referendum matters

The FACTS bear that out. you’re attacking me because I pointed that out.

It doesn’t because, as you’ve identified, both options are the same

I didn’t say that, you did. keep your words out of my mouth.

As for Hawaiian resistance, they’ve been fighting continuously for a hundred years and, like every other liberation movement against the USA, have been ruthlessly suppressed by the fascist police and petty-bourgeoise militia of the “middle class”.

relevant to the argument, and a

you guys are addicted to logical fallacies

And, like every other liberation struggle, victory is inevitable as the empire continues to crumble beneath the weight of its sins.

cute story. also irrelevant

Also, neat how you’ve got five devoted followers upvoting you within two minutes on every one of your shitty empire-shilling posts for the last several hours

jealousy is an ugly look

your lack of ability to imagine another option (such as revolt, etc.) does not mean you “win” the argument. it just means you lose because you lack imagination.

sigh…

Should I kill you with my sword or with my gun?

Sorry, “I want to live” was not an option on the ballot

Alright I tried doing this on your terms, peace

if that were true, you would have argued honestly, with the facts, and in good faith. I have demonstrated, many, many time, how you have not. again, you lie to comfort yourself against facts you refuse to accept.

best of luck with that.

Okay we’re in a thread talking about how Native Hawaiians feel about the American government

due to your amnesia, I’ll remind you that this is how it started:

once the facts were presented, goalposts were moved to “native” Hawaiians because the argument couldn’t be “won" without that straw man, and I’ve been posting that out since.

I actually want to know why you are arguing this point and what you feel it accomplishes, in genuine good faith.

I doubt that, as I’ve made this clear many, many times, and you keep ignoring it.

Like are you Native Hawaiian, do you like in Hawaii, do you just like the idea of being able to visit Hawaii without a passport, or is there some other reason?

not only is my personal information irrelevant, I’d be pretty stupid to give someone like you any personal details that you’d very obviously weaponize against me at your first opportunity. as I’ve said before, I’m not as stupid as you think I am.

For me, I’m arguing this because I believe Indigenous people around the world have a right to self governance and freedom from colonial occupiers. So what’s your reason?

no, you’re here to “win” because you hate the US and think I’m your enemy. i’ve seen your comment history. I sonly presented facts and you and your cohorts don’t like the facts as they clash with your ideology, so you attack me rater than argue the facts rationally. It’s hostile, toxic bullying, and the mere suggestion that you’re interested in god-faith discussion outside of your own echo chamber is a joke.

doesn’t represent the opinions of Native Hawaiians

1. that was never my argument
2. this is a straw man argument because you couldn’t argue agains the facts I initially stated and moved the goalposts from Hawaiian residents to Hawaiian natives
3. as such, it’s irrelevant

even if it were relevant then it isn’t now just because you’re angry about… whatever.

If you’re so into facts and stats you should know a representative measure of their opinion could only be done through a survey of Native Hawaiians

well, why don’t you do that and come back when YOU have some relevant facts to present, and we can talk again.

you’re this desperate? wow

you’ll do anything but make a rational argument based on facts.

Is false

only if you intentionally take them out of context and twist the meaning. because they didn’t do that before the vote. as you said:

Like the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement which began actively protesting and gained support in the 1960s, pretty soon after the referendum?

so, despite your obviously bad-faith and disingenuous argument, I’m not as stupid as you think I am. nice try.

That’s the thing about facts— your opinions don’t magically make them untrue, regardless of how many folksy sayings or logical fallacies you conjure. NOR how much you try to twist my words.

Like the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement

sure. why not? people can object to or protest anything.

the fee expression of speech in a democratic forum, however, certainly argues against any of this being “fascist”, though. thanks of pointing this out!

Once again they were given a choice between becoming a state or remaining a territory

Hawaiians could have protested, revolted, or one of many other options. But they didn’t.

That’s the thing about facts— your opinions don’t magically make them untrue, regardless of how many folksy sayings or logical fallacies you conjure.

If you think a referendum from 1959 fairly represents the interests of the native population then what else is there to say.

that it does, and you have failed to prove otherwise despite quoting a block f text you clearly don’t understand— OR are intentionally misrepresenting, hoping everyone else here is too stupid to realize you’re trying to pull a fast one on them.

Fortunately, I’m not the idiot you think I am.

by voting to become a state - especially to such an overwhelming majority - you can hardly argue a dispositive attitude towards the US being there or towards joining the union. so, not only have you moved the goalposts, you’re arguing a straw man and your own emotions.

I’m sticking with provable facts.

how is it an “occupation” when Hawaiians themselves voted to become a state by a 94+% majority?

On June 27, 1959, a referendum asked residents of Hawaiʻi to vote on the statehood bill; 94.3% voted in favor of statehood and 5.7% opposed it. (source)

relevant video: The Alt-Right Playbook: You Can’t Get Snakes from Chicken Eggs (it’s new!)