I’m not sure what other sensible alternative there is for Finland than conscription. You can’t get around the geographical issues so you have to have some sort of sensible and credible defence. That’s why it has a very wide approval, even when the moral issues of it are recognized. NATO seemed promising as a guarantor of safety, until it lost that credibility (and Finland got in a bit unwillingly, after some recent events). Voluntary military was what Sweden did and it didn’t work well for them.
Actually funnily enough people are surprisingly supportive of expanding the conscription to include women. And that’s on equality grounds, which to many who abhor the idea of forced conscription must seem pretty wild.
What’s the alternative to slavery? How do we get our food without a slave forced to farm 14h a day?
I didn’t mean it rhetorically, how would you ensure a credible defence for Finland? It’s the big issue.
So supportive that if they refuse to go they go to jail.
I’m talking about polls lol. And by voting the people are giving their concent to the system. That includes us who are forced to serve.
And most people who don’t want to do conscription go to civil service. Working in a library, school, such things. For women the whole thing is voluntary.
I didn’t mean it rhetorically, how would you ensure a credible defence for Finland? It’s the big issue.
Allowing people to defend themself as they want and not forcing them into an authoritarian army with jail as a repercussion would ensure a better defense if you ask me. Drafting people by force only benefit the government and rulers not people.
And most people who don’t want to do conscription go to civil service. Working in a library, school, such things. For women the whole thing is voluntary.
That’s for Sweden. I’m from Finland. It’s a different country. Here’s an article about the civilian service/alternative service I was talking about: https://akl-web.fi/en/civilian-service/civilian-service (the article is from an anti-militarist peace organization so the language probably reflects that, they might have other takes you probably enjoy)
If you refuse both military service/conscription and civilian service and you aren’t found unfit for service or something like that, you might serve in a prison though. That’s true for Sweden and Finland. We call them “totaalikieltäytyjä”, “total refuser” or something like that. Pretty rare though, I think 2022 it was 1 person and most just got given a sentence and an ankle bracelet and served the sentence that way.
“I’m not sure what you mean with this, what form would it take, some sort of militia or what sort of thing?”
Putting an electronic bracelet on someone who refuse conscription it’s a big giveaway of government true intentions: they want to have control on people. Being under house arrests or in jail is a limit to the ability to defend yourself, not being drafted isn’t.
I’m not sure what other sensible alternative there is for Finland than conscription. You can’t get around the geographical issues so you have to have some sort of sensible and credible defence. That’s why it has a very wide approval, even when the moral issues of it are recognized. NATO seemed promising as a guarantor of safety, until it lost that credibility (and Finland got in a bit unwillingly, after some recent events). Voluntary military was what Sweden did and it didn’t work well for them.
Actually funnily enough people are surprisingly supportive of expanding the conscription to include women. And that’s on equality grounds, which to many who abhor the idea of forced conscription must seem pretty wild.
What’s the alternative to slavery? How do we get our food without a slave forced to farm 14h a day?
So supportive that if they refuse to go they go to jail.
What’s the alternative to slavery? How do we get our food without a slave forced to farm 14h a day?
I didn’t mean it rhetorically, how would you ensure a credible defence for Finland? It’s the big issue.
I’m talking about polls lol. And by voting the people are giving their concent to the system. That includes us who are forced to serve.
And most people who don’t want to do conscription go to civil service. Working in a library, school, such things. For women the whole thing is voluntary.
Allowing people to defend themself as they want and not forcing them into an authoritarian army with jail as a repercussion would ensure a better defense if you ask me. Drafting people by force only benefit the government and rulers not people.
https://www.thelocal.se/20190404/sweden-hands-out-first-jail-terms-for-draft-evasion
I’m not sure what you mean with this, what form would it take, some sort of militia or what sort of thing?
That’s for Sweden. I’m from Finland. It’s a different country. Here’s an article about the civilian service/alternative service I was talking about: https://akl-web.fi/en/civilian-service/civilian-service (the article is from an anti-militarist peace organization so the language probably reflects that, they might have other takes you probably enjoy)
If you refuse both military service/conscription and civilian service and you aren’t found unfit for service or something like that, you might serve in a prison though. That’s true for Sweden and Finland. We call them “totaalikieltäytyjä”, “total refuser” or something like that. Pretty rare though, I think 2022 it was 1 person and most just got given a sentence and an ankle bracelet and served the sentence that way.
This reminds me of the lone person refusing conscription in israel and the propaganda dismissing the actual number of people ending up in jail.
https://ebco-beoc.org/finland
Putting an electronic bracelet on someone who refuse conscription it’s a big giveaway of government true intentions: they want to have control on people. Being under house arrests or in jail is a limit to the ability to defend yourself, not being drafted isn’t.
I’m not sure if you read your link but it links to AKL which I also linked to and it doesn’t disagree with the numbers.
I also wish to hear your take on the defence, what practical form it would take. I don’t think you elaborated on it.