Gui package managers are great for simple click and install usage similar to windows. but i prefer these since the list of apps is modderated by the repository you choose. So no more googling for a program and downloading a virus because of the 10 fake links google provides to your download. So imo its even safer for users like your mom looking for software is alot less risky.
That’s my point though, Linux is fine for power users and novices, its the middle ground of people who don’t code, aren’t going to learn how to code just to use an OS, but still understand computers enough to try and push them to do more.
There’s a huge amount of people smart enough to know that a piece of software or a few pieces of software can automate something, and can accurately evaluate whether or not to trust the source of an exe file, but who don’t understand what compiling from source is or how they should do that for their distro.
But thats what im saying even a middle ground user would never need to compile from source. Anything youd want to do automatically can generally be done from a script and many things you can think of automation wise has allready been made into a script in bash or python.
Just recently i needed to remove all of the foriegn titles from a list of roms i have on my pc. i found a python script on github dropped it into malwarebytes (because i didnt feel like looking at code, many windows users do this too) and ran the script. I can code but my skills are script kitty chatgpt level. Im essentially the user you are describing
You’re one step more advanced than the user I’m describing.
The user I’m describing roughly understands what the terminal is, and understands you can script with it maybe, but certainly doesn’t trust a random bash script they found since they have no way of parsing it and it looks like a hacker tool that might be able to access stuff on their PC it shouldn’t.
software or a few pieces of software can automate something, and can accurately evaluate whether or not to trust the source of an exe file
This is frustrating because what i did in the example with my roms and a python script is essentially the same as what a windows user would do the main difference being that a windows user probably wouldnt have to go to github because a fancy gui alternative software exists. The user still has to worry about viruses all the same, just because the exe has a website and a download page doesnt make it safer than a terminal based alternative. All users of all levels should be using malwarebytes at a minimum regardless of how safe it “looks”.
That being said i agree with you that many users are definitely intimidated by running programs in the terminal. and ive even seen some users joke about downloading suspicious software thinking its fine and then a spooky command prompt window apears.
I just think if you subtract peoples preconcieved notions about the terminal the actual usual experience and results are the same. The fact that windows has more gui programs just speaks to the fact that its been profitable and the standard to develop apps for windows and macos for far too long.
This is frustrating because what i did in the example with my roms and a python script is essentially the same as what a windows user would do the main difference being that a windows user probably wouldnt have to go to github because a fancy gui alternative software exists.
Agreed.
The user still has to worry about viruses all the same, just because the exe has a website and a download page doesnt make it safer than a terminal based alternative.
Agreed.
I just think if you subtract peoples preconcieved notions about the terminal the actual usual experience and results are the same.
Disagree.
When I run a GUI program and it just has a single button that says “do x”, I trust that this software will do x when I run it and nothing else. Why? Because the developer has designed an interface for me, where there is only a single thing, so if I trust the developer, I can assume it will do that thing.
When I download a bash script, I’m downloading a series of commands that I do not understand, and I hope that when I hit run it will do what I want. Maybe the developer has made a CLI interface that gives me some trust, most likely not.
The reality is that a polished GUi isn’t just shiny graphics, it’s an inherent signal of intent, attention to detail, and minimizes cognitive overload. When I’m presented with just a button all I can evaluate is whether I trust the developer, and whether or noti trust this one button. When I download a list machine instructions I can now evaluate the safety of every single one of them. Thats empowering for coders who can read code, it’s overwhelming and leads to decision paralysis for everyone else.
Even from a legality standpoint, if a company publishes a button that says “click me and I will do x”, they are opening themselves up to legal liability if that button does anything other than x. If a company publishes a list of instructions I don’t understand, they’re only liable if those instructions do something other than they say, and I cant evaluate that.
Even from a legality standpoint, if a company publishes a button that says “click me and I will do x”, they are opening themselves up to legal liability
The irony of this statement is that they do this all of the time when I run a game with kernal anticheat or DRM or even something as simple as data collection from chrome.
But you are correct I very likely devalue the importance of gui for standard users. since ive been in the linux sphere for so long and i did get used to scripting in windows aswell. This is one of those times where i agree with everything you are saying but my entire being wants you to be wrong, because it does not allign with my experience of reality.
Gui package managers are great for simple click and install usage similar to windows. but i prefer these since the list of apps is modderated by the repository you choose. So no more googling for a program and downloading a virus because of the 10 fake links google provides to your download. So imo its even safer for users like your mom looking for software is alot less risky.
That’s my point though, Linux is fine for power users and novices, its the middle ground of people who don’t code, aren’t going to learn how to code just to use an OS, but still understand computers enough to try and push them to do more.
There’s a huge amount of people smart enough to know that a piece of software or a few pieces of software can automate something, and can accurately evaluate whether or not to trust the source of an exe file, but who don’t understand what compiling from source is or how they should do that for their distro.
But thats what im saying even a middle ground user would never need to compile from source. Anything youd want to do automatically can generally be done from a script and many things you can think of automation wise has allready been made into a script in bash or python.
Just recently i needed to remove all of the foriegn titles from a list of roms i have on my pc. i found a python script on github dropped it into malwarebytes (because i didnt feel like looking at code, many windows users do this too) and ran the script. I can code but my skills are script kitty chatgpt level. Im essentially the user you are describing
You’re one step more advanced than the user I’m describing.
The user I’m describing roughly understands what the terminal is, and understands you can script with it maybe, but certainly doesn’t trust a random bash script they found since they have no way of parsing it and it looks like a hacker tool that might be able to access stuff on their PC it shouldn’t.
This is frustrating because what i did in the example with my roms and a python script is essentially the same as what a windows user would do the main difference being that a windows user probably wouldnt have to go to github because a fancy gui alternative software exists. The user still has to worry about viruses all the same, just because the exe has a website and a download page doesnt make it safer than a terminal based alternative. All users of all levels should be using malwarebytes at a minimum regardless of how safe it “looks”.
That being said i agree with you that many users are definitely intimidated by running programs in the terminal. and ive even seen some users joke about downloading suspicious software thinking its fine and then a spooky command prompt window apears.
I just think if you subtract peoples preconcieved notions about the terminal the actual usual experience and results are the same. The fact that windows has more gui programs just speaks to the fact that its been profitable and the standard to develop apps for windows and macos for far too long.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Disagree.
When I run a GUI program and it just has a single button that says “do x”, I trust that this software will do x when I run it and nothing else. Why? Because the developer has designed an interface for me, where there is only a single thing, so if I trust the developer, I can assume it will do that thing.
When I download a bash script, I’m downloading a series of commands that I do not understand, and I hope that when I hit run it will do what I want. Maybe the developer has made a CLI interface that gives me some trust, most likely not.
The reality is that a polished GUi isn’t just shiny graphics, it’s an inherent signal of intent, attention to detail, and minimizes cognitive overload. When I’m presented with just a button all I can evaluate is whether I trust the developer, and whether or noti trust this one button. When I download a list machine instructions I can now evaluate the safety of every single one of them. Thats empowering for coders who can read code, it’s overwhelming and leads to decision paralysis for everyone else.
Even from a legality standpoint, if a company publishes a button that says “click me and I will do x”, they are opening themselves up to legal liability if that button does anything other than x. If a company publishes a list of instructions I don’t understand, they’re only liable if those instructions do something other than they say, and I cant evaluate that.
The irony of this statement is that they do this all of the time when I run a game with kernal anticheat or DRM or even something as simple as data collection from chrome.
But you are correct I very likely devalue the importance of gui for standard users. since ive been in the linux sphere for so long and i did get used to scripting in windows aswell. This is one of those times where i agree with everything you are saying but my entire being wants you to be wrong, because it does not allign with my experience of reality.