For the people who have not yet decided on a search engine. The most EU way you can go is Ecosia or Qwant as they are building their own search index.
Ecosia is my personal pick as its also aimed at planting trees and they have quite a good browser alongside it.
Qwant is actually pretty decent compared to the competition.
Anything that can displace American tech is good.
Search engines are dying, I doubt they’ll have much relevance in ten years or so, unless something radically changes. Walled gardens, SEO, AI spam, and so on.
I wonder where the solution lies. The way the modern internet works is completely hostile to the idea of crawler-based search engines, so I feel like the focus should be on creating an alternative, people-first internet which is completely hostile to brands, corporations and advertisers, ran by communities and individuals, etc.
Far from it, if you’re willing to pay for good search check out Kagi. You don’t realize how busted search is until you see what it’s like when ads aren’t the business model.
I’ve been a paying subscriber to Kagi since 2023. Everything I wrote in my previous comment is still true. I’m glad that it works for you, though.
How would it be paid for? Subscription?
It already exists, it’s called kagi
Its US based tho, so not in the spirit of this community
We will develop a privacy-first search index, which will be used by both Ecosia and Qwant, and unlike proprietary solutions, we are making the index available to others.
Great! Ecosia works super well, and it feels good to not having to rely on google to find things. Only thing I’d wish for is that they’d have some map service or similar to find restaurants and shop. There is sadly no good replacement for google maps that I’ve found
@Extrawurst @Kualdir For Navigation alone, I find Magic Earth (which uses OSM] to be a perfectly fine replacement, that even offers some features Gmaps hasn’t. Like being able to download whole countries for offline navigation, Driver Assistance etc.
For the reviews… That’s more difficult. https://lib.reviews is one attempt, but it has nowhere near the dataset (duh) and the reviews are not directly visible on the map.
Ecosia works well enough for me too. The tree planting thing should never be forgotten. The scope of their work is impressive and they’re very transparent about their goals and funding. No other search engine comes close to that.
The tree planting sounds so much like greenwashing and an excuse to serve ads
200 million trees. Far from greenwashing.
Folks, critical thinking is more important than ever these days. Making conclusions based on a brain fart - when we have the internet at our fingertips - is partly why the world is the way it is.
I listened to a podcast a couple years ago. The founder talked about how he made sure that Ecosia can not be sold and monetized, he himself is not making much money from it. My english is not good enough to explain it in more detail. :)
I see greenwashing everywhere, but as far as I can tell from the podcast and their YouTube, this is legit.
Organic Maps
Yeah but open street maps does not handle temporary road closures, construction, or temporary one-ways well…
https://nelsonslog.wordpress.com/2024/03/30/openstreetmap-temporary-road-closures/
I don’t even know if organic maps respects tags. https://www.reddit.com/r/openstreetmap/comments/vuuecd/how_or_where_can_i_submit_temporary_closed_roads/
It certainly doesn’t respect road conditions or road priority. It constantly tries to send me through a 2 meter wide cobblestone and broken up asphalt service road instead of the main residential roads because it “technically” is 50, even with surface marked as bad condition.
I try to contribute to OSM where I can, but i never can trust organic maps to get me somewhere I haven’t been before.
open street maps does not handle temporary road closures, construction, or temporary one-ways well
that sadly depends on your region and the amount of volunteers in your area. I remember reading how OSM was more reliable after the 2023 Turkey earthquake for the first responders than Google Maps, because the changes in the terrain were added there much faster.
I don’t know about the road conditions during the navigation. it definitely does support this kind of data as I input it myself every now and then, but I don’t drive so I haven’t had to try out different OSM navigation algorithms to see if they account for it, or anything like that.
I more mean the actual method of doing it isn’t straightforward and there is still no fully agreed upon and documented method for construction changes, just a few “you can do it this way” kind of things.
And indeed navigation picking up the OSM updates and using temporary closure tags and road conditions seems to be more miss than hit with organic maps at least. But the UI is 10x more usable than OSMAnd so I use it where possible.
You could also use open street maps. For mobile I recommend using Organic Maps.l Only problem is, that the search isn’t that good.
Here we go, is a pretty good alternative.
Try Here WeGo maps, it’s the closest one to Google maps but European
Its already been mentioned but if you don’t need reviews you can use Here WeGo maps. Its a good alternative and with more users (who make fixes if something is missing) it’ll get better and better
i mean you kinda need to specify what you want from a map, there are a bunch of things that google maps is actively the worst at
For sure, one specific thing is being able to find a restaurant in the vicinity, seeing some kind of review system of its reception, and knowing if it’s open or not and having a link to a menu or its homepage. Another (albeit extremely specific) case is looking up a secondhand store in the vicinity of where I am - I tried this with here wego when I was out recently but it showed me a store that no longer existed. Of course might be a unlucky coincidence (google maps for sure has nonexisting stores too), but I’m 0 for 1 atm.
best alternative would probably be something like tripadvisor, for restaurants
obviously it’s not exactly a vastly less shitty option, but at least it’s not google.
Oh yea tripadvisor might be the option, thanks for the tip!
So many people are happy here. I can understand why but quick reminder that Qwant is not privacy friendly like they claim to be and that the CEO is a bastard who threatened employees.
As for Ecosia, the only green they have is their name. Great they plant trees but they pushed AI so it’s basically like if they are destroying the trees they planted.
There is a search engine with their own index from UK, privacy-friendly, it is called Mojeek. It is not as good as the others but I’ve been using it for maybe 4 months and it already improved a lot. They need users to give feedback and improve. Give it a try ! 😊
I get your point regarding AI and Ecosia, but this is a personal choice whether to use AI or not. I don’t think it really negates the good they are trying to do. And I expect we’ll see some breakthroughs regarding AI efficiency in the near future.
I don’t know how far in the rabbithole I am, but at this point I feel like it’s nearly impossible to find a company that doesn’t have dirt on it in one way or another. There are alternatives in some domains, but for search engines, it’s really narrowed down to Brave (which also have some not very nice people in it) and Duck duck go, which uses Bing. Which is basically pointless to me, not even talking about using UE products, for me, the best way to get some fresh air is to have companies that have their own search engines (so, not Bing or Google, this is why I don’t use alternatives like Starpage or Searx) There’s Mojeek, yes, but last time I used it, it was…really bad. I still encourage them tho! I’ll give it another shot now.
To me there is also a topic no one is ready to talk about : the way we search the web. I changed the way I search the web. Most of the time I need to browse the same websites so I added keywords search for those search.
For Mojeek, I took time configuring “focuses” (a feature they have to limit the websites searched to a predefined subset).
I reduced my need of search engines globally and now I’d say I use Mojeek and there’s 50% chance I need to go to DuckDuckGo because Mojeek failed to give me my answers. When I started using Mojeek, I almost never found answers so I’d say it got better!
Google always suck for me except if I’m looking for products, the only domaineit shines but that’s kinda expected to be honest considering Google business model.
Good news, needs to happen as fast as possible.
France and Germany will have it this year, we’ll have to see how it evolves further but hopefully its a success!
Maybe I’ll use Ecosia again
Both are great! In my experience Qwant gives better search results, so thats what i use. I even prefer Qwant’s results over Google’s. But Ecosia is a great option as well because of the tree planting.
I use Ecosia for personal use and Qwant for work. So I support both!
Ecosia is my personal choice because of the tree planting as well. But I agree Qwant results are a bit better, which for me only matters while I work.
It doesn’t mention whether it’ll be opensource or not. A proprietary search index that isn’t USAian is probably better, but still opensource would be better.
Don’t let perfect stand in the way of better I’d say, in the end both companies still need to make a return on investment
True, it’s a first step in the right direction :)
Sounds great! I’ve been happy with Ecosia currently. I tried Qwant, but I have strict privacy settings enabled in my browser and it says it couldn’t get a secure connection. I’m sure it’s 100% safe, but I just settled for Ecosia for now. Looking forward to trying out their new partnered search engine.
Now if only anyone of them would offer a paid ad-free option. I’d drop Kagi in an instant
Perhaps send their support an email about it to see what they say
Pity they aren’t on mastodon :/
I use Kagi because of their strong stance against censorship. If I want to find information about controversial topics, I expect my search engine to give me the results it has crawled. I use this community test list to determine if they’re censoring results. Most search engines fail this now. I imagine any EU search engine will fail this on day one.
Why do you imagine that?
The EU has made numerous moves towards restricting free speech and communication over the last decade, especially in the technology space. These include:
- Digital Services Act (DSA) (2022)
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The DSA imposes strict regulations on large online platforms and search engines (such as Google and Meta).
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Requires platforms to remove “illegal content” quickly, though the definition of illegal content varies by country.
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Mandates content moderation transparency but can pressure platforms to suppress speech preemptively.
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Enables regulators to demand access to platform algorithms and recommend content moderation changes.
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Forces messaging apps like WhatsApp and Signal to comply with EU orders, potentially compromising end-to-end encryption.
- Digital Markets Act (DMA) (2022)
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Primarily aimed at tech monopolies, but also affects search engines and app stores.
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Limits the ability of platforms to rank their own services higher (e.g., Google prioritizing its own results).
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Forces companies like Apple to open up iMessage to other messaging services, potentially impacting security.
- Terrorist Content Online Regulation (2021)
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Requires platforms to remove flagged terrorist content within one hour or face heavy fines.
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No clear appeals process, raising concerns about automatic censorship by algorithms.
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Governments can demand removals across all EU member states, limiting national sovereignty over content moderation.
- General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) (2018)
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Although GDPR focuses on privacy, it has been used to delist certain search results (right to be forgotten).
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Some critics argue that GDPR can be weaponized to suppress critical information about public figures.
- Copyright Directive (2019) – Article 17 (formerly Article 13)
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Requires platforms to filter copyrighted content before it is uploaded.
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Forces platforms like YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook to proactively block content using automated filters, which often lead to false positives and excessive censorship.
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Criticized for making memes and satire more difficult to share due to automated copyright enforcement.
- EU Code of Practice on Disinformation (2018, revised 2022)
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Although voluntary at first, compliance with fact-checking and disinformation policies is now mandatory under the DSA.
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Forces social media companies to demonetize or downrank “misinformation,” often without clear definitions.
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Involves close cooperation with government-backed fact-checkers, raising concerns about political bias.
- Chat Control Legislation (Proposed in 2022)
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Requires messaging platforms (e.g., WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal) to scan private messages for child abuse content.
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Critics argue this destroys end-to-end encryption, making all private communication vulnerable.
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Could lead to mass surveillance under the guise of child protection.
- Political Ads Transparency Act (2023)
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Requires all online political ads to be labeled and traceable.
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Platforms must track funding sources, but unclear definitions of political content could impact activism and independent journalism.
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Could be used to limit grassroots campaigns that lack formal funding structures.
- Media Freedom Act (2023)
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Gives the EU more oversight over media ownership and state influence on journalism.
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Some journalists worry it could be used to pressure media outlets to align with EU narratives.
These are just the laws. There have been uncounted statements by EU leaders about greater control over the kind of information they wish to allow transmitted in the EU. All of these Acts are rooted in good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. At minimum, a significant portion of the results in the test list above would be banned under existing legislation.
I can imagine the prompt to generate this:
- Make a list of EU regulations that apply to tech giants and explain what they are.
- For each of the regulations add one example that oversimplifies the potential downsides
- Ommit any advantages
A troll trolling.
The user asked why I believed the EU would ban sites. I gave them the answer. Why would you expect me to reply with something unrelated to their question? You just don’t like that a) I’m correct - the EU would immediately ban sites on their search engine, and b) you’re comfortable with the government telling you which books you’re allowed to read. I’m not.
I believe that you believe that
Courtesy of Groq:
Here is the list of EU regulations that apply to tech giants, along with an oversimplification of potential downsides and an example for each:
- General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) * Applies to the processing of personal data of EU citizens * Oversimplification: “Tech giants are forced to dive deep into ocean of red tape to comply with GDPR, causing unnecessary delays and increased costs” * Example: Facebook’s struggles to comply with GDPR led to the temporary shutting down of its facial recognition feature.
- European Electronic Communications Code (EECC)
- Regulates online communication services, including messaging and voice calls
- Oversimplification: “Tech giants are strangled by unnecessary bureaucracy, stifling innovation and damaging their ability to compete”
- Example: The EECC’s stricter regulation of online messaging apps has been criticized for hindering the development of new services.
- e-Privacy Regulation
- Regulates online communication and data sharing
- Oversimplification: “Tech giants are forced to build costly and complex systems to comply with e-Privacy, diverting resources away from actual innovation”
- Example: The e-Privacy Regulation’s requirement for granular consent from users has been criticized for being overly burdensome and potentially weakening online security.
- Platform Regulation (Digital Services Act)
- Regulates online platforms and their liability for user-generated content
- Oversimplification: “Tech giants are held accountable for everything, good and bad, on their platforms, leading to unfair punishment for “thought crimes””
- Example: The Platform Regulation’s " terrorists’ materials" provision has been criticized for being too broad and potentially stifling free speech.
- Copyright Directive (Article 17)
- Regulates the use of copyrighted material on online platforms
- Oversimplification: “Tech giants are forced to become copyright police, deleting perfectly legitimate content and stifling creativity”
- Example: The Copyright Directive’s “filtering” requirement has been criticized for being overly broad and potentially leading to the removal of legitimate content.
- Audiovisual Media Services Directive (AVMSD)
- Regulates online video content, including streaming services
- Oversimplification: “Tech giants are forced to pander to the lowest common denominator, sacrificing artistic freedom for the sake of censorship”
- Example: The AVMSD’s restrictions on content considered “harmful” has been criticized for being too vague and potentially stifling artistic expression.
- Transparency and Accountability (TAMANDO)
- Requires tech giants to be transparent about their algorithms and decision-making processes
- Oversimplification: “Tech giants are forced to reveal their trade secrets, handing over the keys to their kingdom to competitors and regulators”
- Example: The TAMANDO’s requirement for algorithmic transparency has been criticized for being overly broad and potentially leading to the disclosure of sensitive information.
Please note that these oversimplifications are intentionally exaggerated to highlight potential downsides, but the actual regulations and their implementation likely have more nuances and benefits.
Ah yes, because regulations are so horrible, right?
It stands in the way of “innovation”.
God forbid we protect our citizens!
I have whiplash. You’ve gone from an implied “that’s not happening” to “okay so it’s happening, and here’s why it’s a good thing!” Why feign ignorance if you knew that I was correct?
I don’t believe any government has the right to restrict which books and news sites I should be allowed to access. I think I am the best person to decide which knowledge I should have access to.
Yes. By default we don’t want any government intervention. But the “government overreach” needs to be addressed on the specific cases where it happens.
I don’t believe any government has the right to restrict which books and news sites I should be allowed to access. I think I am the best person to decide which knowledge I should have access to.
While this statement is true sometimes, it is also again an oversimplification. I don’t think even you believe this. If a website contains illegal content, would you really prefer for the government to not intervene?
Classic examples would be the sale of hard drugs and child pictures.
We all agree more than we disagree. But communication is hard and most subjects, especially the hard ones, are not black and white.
@JasSmith @madjo Lemme guess… 'Cause 'Murica is the only country that knows freedom?
If things like that are censored it usually happens on the ISP level, not at the search engine. Those “censored” pages might rank lower but there could be dozens of perfectly fine explanations for that. Mostly because some of those pages know diddly squat about SEO or their pages might be socially relevant but are really bad at / for driving ad revenue.
But calling that “censorship” is IMHO not correct.
No I mean actual censorship. For example, RT and Sputnik. They have also banned PressTV and CGTN. They suspended broadcast licenses for EADaily / Eurasia Daily, Fondsk, Lenta, NewsFront, RuBaltic, SouthFront, Strategic Culture Foundation, and Krasnaya Zvezda / Tvzvezda. All of these sites would be explicitly banned from any EU based search engine.
Note that I am not giving American tech companies a free pass here. Google is one of the worst.
Also note that “censorship” doesn’t exclusively refer to government censorship. That is an American-centric perspective using the Constitution as the lens. Censorship is often conducted by individuals and organisations. In this case I am referring to the EU.
Pretty much all of those “”“news”“” sources have been witnessed to spread complete fabrications and fake news, and were used to undermine democracy on this continent, much like how Fox News and the likes are actively undermining democracy across the pond by spreading lies as “opinion pieces”.
How quickly we shift from “it’s not happening” to “okay it’s happening, and here’s why it’s a good thing!” It’s fine that you prefer the government to choose which information you’re allowed to view. I don’t. I believe I should be allowed access to all information, and I should be allowed to choose what I want to read. I think banning books and websites and news is wrong.
@JasSmith Well there is a whole discussion to be had about banning media who is spouting lie after lie after lie and are propaganda machines for the respective regimes.
But before you just assume censorship… try it yourself. I can open rt.com, tass etc and search for them.
Sometimes the search result are all nerfed to hell, but they are there.
And some pages (Zwezda) seem to have blocked access from my country at least, but that’s on their site & RT does not have a valid certificate…
rt.com is blocked for me. If you can access it and you’re based in the EU it means you’re using a foreign DNS provider like 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8.
I understand well the arguments used by governments to restrict access to books and websites. I reject them. I believe I am the best person to decide which knowledge I am allowed to access. I am certainly far more qualified than the government.
Any News on when this will go live?
1H 2025 in France and Germany
1H for Qwant and its indexing of French websites. 2H for Exosia and its indexing of German websites.
The index is expected to start serving France-based search engine traffic for Ecosia and Qwant by the first quarter of next year. It will then expand to include a “significant portion” of traffic in Germany by the end of 2025. English would be the third language they’d look to add, the pair said, adding that more European languages could follow in the future if momentum builds.
1H?
half
I’ve never seen “1H” used before for what I’m guessing means Q3. Where’s that from?
I’m pushing 40, have a mind like a steel trap for phrases and terms that crop up in pop culture, and have a business degree. I have never heard “H1” or “H2” before, let alone “1H”. To me that suggests that it’s not a common term in British or American English and instead is common in another language. Kind of like Swedes and numbering the weeks of the year (perhaps the other Scandinavian countries do it too), or the various languages that interpret “half one” as meaning halfway to one (i.e. 1230) rather than half past (1330).
Of course it could just be a bizarre blindspot and it’s passed me by but damnit, I’m curious now!
impressive! :) its used in austria. i wrongly assumed its used in the english too.
I think it is a central European thing where we used to structure the business year into two halfs - erstes Halbjahr and zweites Halbjahr - in regards to reports etc while the anglosphere has tended to structure it into quarters. And it’s still done for things like release dates. But don’t quote me on that, as I have no sources.
1-handed (as opposed to 2-handed) which means you can wield two 1H but only one 2H. Usually 2H has the higher damage dice, while 2 1H allows for two attacks in one turn instead (which means either slightly increased base dmg or flexibility of attacking multiple targets) ;)
Enamoured with Qwant. Great plugins for iOS/Mac too
This is the way! Excited to try it!
