I know the hard sciences aren’t a strong suit around these parts, but do some very basic math. 55 billion divided by 5,000 is 11 million.
There’s no way to “No True Scotsman” the number of Americans down to 11 million. So how will they decide who gets the money?
I think we already know…
Meh, I think they are just throwing out that number or funsies. But to your point, to be more accurate, and if they stuck with head of households $400 to $500 would work. And I’d be fine with that.
Who knows. But ANY DOGE dividend would be fine with me. Better yet, get rid of all this nonsense and just go flat tax and UBI. I’d be stoked about that more than anything.
And I’d gladly call Trump “King” if he did that. lmao
Flat tax?!?! Don’t those burden the poor much more than other taxes?
Not in the models I have seen. I have seen people argue that, but I’ve also seen people argue against that.
I guess to me it’s pretty simple. Poor folks have less disposable income and therefore taxing them is more likely to take from basic needs. Why aggravate poverty? If the owner class doesn’t pay its workers enough then we should tax them and support workers with owner class money.
Because in the models I saw and like, basics like food, utilities, housing wouldn’t be taxed. So it’s more of a consumption tax. Buying shit you don’t need. Poor folks don’t need the latest phones, latest styles of clothes, latest shoes, the fastest internet, etc.
People who buy lots of crap, would pay more taxes. Those of us who buy less crap would pay less taxes. Basically rich people would pay way more taxes than non-rich people. That’s a simplification, but that’s the gist.
And to be honest, I don’t think most of Lemmy has ever been poor. Most of Lemmy are computer programers/nerds who think poor is making $80K a year just out to college–guys, that ain’t poor.
Poor is never even have been to college, and working minimum wage without benefits. And sometimes 2 jobs. And fucking eating beans and rice to fucking live. Or not having a job and being homeless.
Bitching about having a 4-year computer science degree and not making $100K a year is NOT FUCKING POOR, no matter where you live, guys. Try not having a degree.
Source: I’ve been poor. I’m retired now and I still make less than 99 percent of Lemmy. lol
I see, I’ll ingore the rant and stay focused. I’ve heard you rant about that before.
I don’t believe in a natural hierarchy. I think people are incomparable value wise, and therefore I’d like to see everyone as equal as possible. Therefore I think being rich should be one of the most difficult things for a person to maintain. I think things should naturally equalize. An intense progressive tax where the vast majority of wealth over some threshold is taxed would force the rich to actually work for the people.
Being rich would be a positive status from any angle there because you are giving most of it away.
And I have seen your rants before. The things you want have never happened, and will never happen.
I’d love to see everyone as equal as possible too. But to think that that you can wish/force the rich to actually work for the people is laughable.
It’s not going to happen. And I think you know it’s not going to happen. So I think the best way is to adapt the best we can.
But you keep wishing for that. Trump won for a reason.
We ain’t Star Trek. We’ll never be Star Trek. But that doesn’t mean we have to be unhappy.
“Head of household” and “king”. What century do you live in?
Edit: UBI would be cool though, but conservatives tend to hate the idea of giving away money “for free”. This money is just to allow them to tear down the state and democracy in peace, saving them some time.
“Head of household” and “king”. What century do you live in?
Do you do your taxes? Head of household term was on this year’s tax return. You are not familiar with that term? Do you live in the US and do your own taxes?
And “king” was a joke.
Yes, I’m not from the US, so please excuse my ignorance, it just sounded so old school patriarchal that I assumed that it was a thing of the past. So a household with a mother and a father, are both of them heads of the household then? And if not, do they have to decide who is?
Ahh, ok. So if you aren’t from the US, why are you being so passionate about US politics? I mean, you are totally welcome to do so, but I’m curious about why.
Head of Household is a filing status for unmarried taxpayers who pay more than half the cost of maintaining a home for themselves and a qualifying dependent. To qualify, the taxpayer must be unmarried or considered unmarried on the last day of the tax year and have a dependent who meets IRS criteria. For married couples, the equivalent of Head of Household is typically Married Filing Jointly (MFJ) if both spouses file together, or Married Filing Separately (MFS) if they file individually. Married Filing Jointly offers the best tax benefits, while Married Filing Separately may be used in specific situations, such as when spouses want to keep tax liabilities separate.
Thanks for the thorough explanation of the us tax forms! 😅
Well, I care primarily because what US does affects the whole world. Theo world is much more unstable and unsafe since trump took office.
I also believe in the principle of freedom and democracy and I think it’s sad to see it deteriorate, because I see how it will hurt people. I followed the riots in Hong Kong too as young people tried to fight for their right of self governance, if only for a few more years.
I guess I’m just interested too! :)
Theo world is much more unstable and unsafe since trump took office.
No it’s not. The fucking world is full of bad people doing bad things. THEY are making the world unstable and unsafe. Other countries can stand up and do shit if they think it’s bad.
I also believe in the principle of freedom and democracy and I think it’s sad to see it deteriorate,
It’s not deteriorating. The majority of American people wanted Trump in office, and they voted him in office. That’s democracy. If you don’t like it, then handle your shit in your own country the way you want things handled.
I guess I’m just interested too! :)
Which is awesome. I applaud that. But just so you know, Lemmy is NOT even close to having the opinions of the majority of Americans. Which is why so many on Lemmy were surprised that Trump won. Lemmy is out of touch with the average american, and most Americans have never even heard of Lemmy. Lemmy is a very very small extremes sample of people who don’t really know much about the average American way of life.
And I’d gladly call Trump “King” if he did that
Careful, you might choke
. . . oh wait, its too small for that
Right? :)
Fuckin loser monarchist.
This dude doesn’t even live in America lol
I was born here, raised here, have lived here longer than you have been alive, and I’ve never even left the states.
So where is it you think I live. Come on, tell us! Where do I live if not in America. I’d love to year your theory.
You have all these theories about me, but you never tell them. Tell us all of them. It’ll be fun!
You’re a propaganda fool you don’t live in America lol 😂😂
Man, I LOVE it when you pop up. lolol
But you never tell us your whole theory. So for the people who aren’t caught up, tell us where you think I live and what my “mission” is. Please?
Thanks, friend! :)
That would be pretty cool if true, and if they didn’t also gut the welfare state and democracy.
But I still kind of doubt they’ll actually follow through.
How does that save money? Is he going to be paying it personally, from his own wealth?
Because it’s only 20% of the money they have saved from canceling programs. So it’s a big refund to us, that we’ve already paid the gvt.
But you are totally free to donate your 5K check if you don’t believe in it.
Leaving aside how often theyve been proven by their own numbers to be lying about their totals, it’s not even complicated math that you’re getting bamboozled by.
Hell, you don’t even need to do the math, you could logic your way out of this pretty easily.
Did you pay $5000 in federal taxes minus FICA last year? Did you pay $25k?
What happened the last time these idiots turned on a money printer?
Will these “savings” be disbursed every year? You’re not getting the services that apparently cost 5x as much anymore.
Why not start a $25k yearly UBI if they aren’t lying about the savings? The science is incredibly clear, it’d pay for itself, make even more programs unnecessary, and end homelessness overnight. Not to mention kick the economy into overdrive.
What does Elon, crypto enthusiast, have to gain from another round of inflation? Or the owner class in general, whose wealth is tied into inflation-resistant property?
No, I won’t be burning the check in a pointless gesture of defiance.
I’ll be buying guns and ammo with it for the collapse.
Why not start a $25k yearly UBI if they aren’t lying about the savings?
I’d be totally fine with that.
The science is incredibly clear, it’d pay for itself, make even more programs unnecessary, and end homelessness overnight.
You’ve obviously never worked with the homeless community. Trust me, it would NOT end homelessness. lol
This dude has never worked with the homeless.
Are you referring to me or the other person. Because I did. For a little over 4 years in a paying position, and 3 years in a volunteering position.
Have you worked with them?
Totally lying lol
LMAO, you have no clue what you’re talking about.
You think I live in Russia, remember?! And that I’m a group of russians and spies. LMAO
I can’t believe I’m agreeing with you of all people, but I have as well and as strange as it may sound to people who haven’t, there is a certain proportion of the homeless population which is homeless by choice. It’s not a large proportion, but it’s not that small either.
It’s a chicken and egg problem with many schizophrenic and borderline homeless where you can’t tell if they ended up on the street due to mental illness or if living on the street made them mentally ill, but I have personally seen people choose to leave housing projects to go back to the street, and have heard similar stories from others.
That said, of course using this fact as an excuse to not do everything we can to house the majority of homeless who do want homes and to support the ones who don’t in other ways (soup kitchens, clinics, etc and mental health counseling for those who want it) is absurd.
Thank you. I’m glad there is finally someone else in this conversation that has also worked with the homeless.
I don’t know why people don’t think I’m sympathetic to homeless people–actually I do, they are just mad because I didn’t vote for Harris–but I am sympathetic. If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t have been able to work with them for so many years.
But it’s an addiction/mental illness problem, not an income problem for most homeless.
In fact, it’s very easy to look up too. So I don’t even understand why people here are arguing.
Now, money committed to the overall problem is needed, but UBI to people won’t actually solve the homeless situation for most of that population. Money for programs to help them, and stay with them, etc, WILL. But that’s not what what UBI is, and that is the point I was making.
And here’s the thing that Lemmy needs to know about this situation: Democrats have been in power plenty of times over the years. And the problem still hasn’t been solved. This isn’t a “Republicans caused this mess” problem. BOTH parties have fucked up on addressing this.
But I guess it’s easier for computer nerds who have never had to struggle in life just to say to say that I’m lying when I say I worked with the population for years. That’s easier than actually doing anything about it.
So Lemmy, step up. Dedicate your time and your money to helping the homeless. Then come back to this conversation and tell us what you learned.
Cuz I’m not taking Lemmy seriously. You guys have made $80K + a years since you were fucking 20. You all don’t know shit about the homeless population or what it’s like to work with them.
Not you, Peruvian Skies, I am talking about the other armchair critics in this thread.
No one is talking about the willing homeless as a problem, except for the fascists who are also gleefully dismantling the social aid networks for the mentally ill and addicted.
So near as to make no difference it absolutely would (at least if you do it in monthly payments… A yearly one would indeed be a bad idea)
Have you worked with the homeless community? I worked directly with them for over 4 years. Community outreach shelter.
For the vast, vast majority in my area, money/income wasn’t the main cause of their homelessness. Even providing them with free shelter and housing didn’t work. 100 percent of all our cases, the person returned to the streets by choice within 6 months.
The rules for the free housing were: no illegal drugs, work with the back-to-work training program (in order to get them skills for having a job), and not tearing up the housing.
If you worked with homeless people, you can imagine how that worked out. Our homeless community just did NOT want to be anywhere that any any rules whatsoever, even rules as lax as those.
Monthly UBI wouldn’t go towards housing costs for our population of homeless people. Maybe your homeless community is different, but from working with several agencies nationwide, I heard many similar complaints to what I just laid out.
Now if you are talking about a single mom, with 2 kids, who just got laid off and can’t afford childcare, so she sleeps in her car, fuck yes, UBI would solve that. But that’s not the clientele that make up 99.9 percent of homeless communities.
Have you worked with homeless communities in a professional capacity?
Yes, and you’re full of shit.
Oh really? I’m full of shit? Ok, so what was your capacity with regards to working with the homeless community?
And why do so many people who work with homeless communities agree with me? Are they “full of shit” too?
I actually think you know I’m right, but since you think I worship Trump, you aren’t gonna agree with anything I say.
Even though I didn’t vote for him. But let me guess, you think I’m “full of shit” when I say that too, right? lol
You already have your mind made up about me. We’ve already had previous discussions. What do you hope to achieve by constantly saying stuff and then getting mad at my replies?
I have mentioned what I’ve done for a living since I joined Lemmy. In fact, the very reason I was able to retire at 54 is because I worked for the state. I have no fucking reason to lie to just win an argument with some random lemmy person who is mad that I didn’t vote for Harris.
But even ignoring your bias, I’d LOVE UBI. Fuck, if you wanna waste it on homeless people, go for it. As long as all of us get it, I don’t care how they waste theirs.
Free money, eh?
Nothing is ever free. If (massive emphasis on that if) this happens, there will be a terrible price to pay for it
there will be a terrible price to pay for it
And what price is that?
Yes, please.
This just shows off his deeply unserious they are. You don’t even have to be good at math to know that $2 trillion is more than $55 billion. (And they haven’t even provided evidence for that much cost-cutting.) That $2 trillion, and the resulting $5,000 check amount, is literally just a number that some Internet rando pulled out of his ass!
Seriously, how dumb do you have to be to fall for this super-obvious BS? I mean, I honestly don’t think that the average MAGA supporter is that stupid; they just don’t apply even a second of critical thought. It’s just rah-rah, knee jerk support for their side. Like they’ve been conned…
Elmo is worth over $400 billion dollars. There are about 8 billion people on the planet. Do the math, you’re lucky if he thinks you’re even worth $50.
