Not really sure what to do about this situation. I have a group that meets monthly. We do a lot of roleplay, but a few of my players are very into being OP at combat. They want to build their characters the strongest and the best. So I alternatively get requests to both break rules and strictly apply rules so they’ll get advantages. They’ve also said they want deadly combat.
Not really sure how to handle this since their requests swing back and forth between RAW and not RAW. I’m finding myself saying “I want to follow RAW here” one day and then “I don’t want to follow RAW that closely” the other day. They are in many ways kind of ruining combat for themselves as we aren’t a wargaming table. We also have so little playtime I can’t devote an hour or more getting into wargaming combat with them. It wouldn’t be fun for a few of the other players (or for me) to devote our sessions almost entirely to combat and we usually have a few combats to get through.
As DM I feel pressured to be the cool DM and meet their expectations, but I’m also getting frustrated by the constant asks that boil down to wanting to be the most OP. I get the want, but it’s getting to the point where we are having a running issue where the OP players don’t want other players to do things for RP reasons and I haven’t figured how to have this talk to halt the OP train here. The OP players basically want to enter combat, always hit with their attacks, have the max possible attacks and crits, never get hit back, just have the enemy stand there and take damage. Which is obviously a problem as that’s terrible and boring combat.
The players in question are great people. They do roleplay, assist other players and contribute OOC. They do also agree it’s my decision to run the game how I want. I’m just not sure how to express to them they need to slow their roll in trying to be a level 20 god at level 3.
Rust monsters, break their stuff.
Events that force the party into smaller groups.
Tailor situations to be optimal for the shy players.
Talk to the players one on one about it
I’m upvoting this comment but IMO the only good advice here is the last point. Don’t try to solve out-of-game problems with in-game solutions
This, this, a thousand times this.
Doing something in game to “teach your players a lesson,” instead of openly communicating OOC, rarely goes well. The game is a fully consenting activity for all concerned. Players give you control over the game world extending trust to you that you’ll handle it in a way that’s enjoyable for all concerned.
Taking players who are attached to the idea of unfairly overpowered characters, and putting their characters in a situation where they’re unfairly underpowered to “teach them a lesson,” is a virtually guaranteed gateway to misery and strife.
Just communicate. (Which it sounds like is what OP has done, so hooray! But the point is worth re emphasizing)
Literally just tell them what you said in this post.
The game needs to be fun for all concerned, yourself included.
Honestly, it sounds like some of your players may want to just play video games with cheats on or something – personally I find games to be more fun when there is a challenge, as opposed to my character being so powerful that all challenge is removed, but everyone’s different.
If it were me, I would probably:
- Decide for yourself what kind of game you want to be in that you’ll enjoy.
- Talk openly with players (probably one-on-one is better to start with, with the “problem” players first if you want to call it that, and then on some level with everyone together so it’s not a secrets-whispered-in-corners type of thing) about it. Nobody has to want to play a way that’s different than how they want to, but conversely, if they want to play in a fashion that’ll make it difficult for others to have fun, then they may need to find another game, and the players who can have fun together can keep playing in the way that they enjoy.
If it does wind up that some members of the group are parting ways, then I would try to leave the door open like “hey if in the future you want to try to work it out with us you’re welcome to.” You’re not kicking anyone out, but you are defining the type of game you want to play in, which seems pretty fair to me.
Thanks! I talked to one one-on-one and I think we got to the bottom of some of it (was trying to force homebrew their class to fit their idea of it/bring it up to the power level they feel it should be) and made some compromises. I think (hope lol) I put my foot a little down they’ve gotten a version they can live with and we’re not going to keep adding things on. And that we are not a wargaming table.
Awkward talk, but hopefully we can patch any uncomfortable feelings as we go forward or, if not, at least part amicably like you said.
I feel like I’d need more specific examples of the kinds of things they ask for. Do they complain when enemies use tactics or when they miss?
No, it’s more asking for actions to be free actions or magic items to just be given to them. I said no a lot initially and they tried to wrangle the party and NPCs into doing it for them/letting them get these non-RAW things (trying not to be specific, but at one point they tried to use the NPC they were rescuing as a free whole extra set of action economy). So I’ve felt compelled to just give it to them so they stop derailing the session. My bad really turned out to be giving in as it ramped the asking up a ton and also wanting RAW rules to now apply because they got non-RAW things they want to abuse against the enemies (so even though it was explained to me it was wanted for X and I agreed to X specifically, they’re bringing up RAW also gives them Y and Z).
Eta: little more specific so NPCs and the party were all being repeatedly badgered to do actions for them instead of being played themselves. Every time I said no it would switch to the next character they interacted with. Same thing for magic items they wanted. It was just constant trying to work every angle to have it show up and be given to them. I’d say no you can’t buy a vorpal sword and it’d become maybe this guy has a vorpal sword in his house for no reason, let’s check till one shows up. That kind of stuff. (They do not have a vorpal sword but as a hypothetical scenario this is what I’m dealing with)
It seems like from this comment and your post that your players just want to spend the session roleplay their characters doing super op stuff and are not super interested in balanced combat or deep character progression despite what they may say. I thunk would good to talk to them about what you’ve mentioned in the post and how it makes things hard on you as a DM. A couple solutions id maybe propose are agreeing to follow raw for the time and not make any rule changes in session and let you run the kind of campaign you want to see if they enjoy a more traditional DND experience. Alternatively maybe that’s not what they are looking for and if y’all have limited amount of time to play every week maybe a different system besides dnd would be more fun and easier for everyone including you. Ive tried monster of the week and blades in the dark with players similar to yours and found that while they weren’t like the most balanced experiences it was a lot easier to do a quick session where everyone felt like they did cool shit and I didnt have to spend sessions checking rules or trying to tell someone the silly thing they wanted to do wouldnt be possible because of bonus actions or lack of feat. Most important things is everyone has fun including you OP! Hope it all works out!
That’s a good point. I know they said they want deadly combat, but one has also said they hate when the enemy is hard to hit and they’re not doing damage/having their damage mitigated. I think it probably is just about doing cool stuff and big damage and they’re not wording it well.
The group is specifically to run an AL so we won’t be switching systems. But I do think I have to think about how important the balance is to me (I’m not really sure, I’m mostly just here because the constant requests to be more OP are getting to me lol).
Thanks for the insights.
Buckle down. Let them check 50 empty houses for the vorpal sword. It kind of sounds like they’re taking advantage of your flexibility, and they’re in a place where they think if they can wear you down you’ll agree.
Honestly this is a very “us vs them” mindset dividing the DM and the players. I’d have a talk about that.
The most OP build in Skyrim is a stealth archer. Every build eventually becomes a stealth archer until the player figures out how boring that is.
Put them in a place where their power means nothing. Oh combat this session is just a group of goblins that they cut through like butter and you’re back to the RP.
genre shift to immersive sim. Once the player catches on and starts optimizing for physics puzzles and social interactions, either return to playing as normal or keep rolling with it.
Nothing to add here but you’ve had a bunch of great answers; thanks to all the respondents and to OP for being super candid. This thread was a great read!
