This is what the people who forgot about Donald Trump say. Trump’s presidency was far more rewarding for Israel than either Russia or North Korea; arguably, even more rewarding than the US. This conflict wouldn’t have existed without Trump’s aid in the first place. If you think Biden or Harris are friends with Netanyahu, you are sorely mistaken.
I’m voting for the person I trust to make a half a promising decision for calmness in the Middle East rather than the one who’s guaranteed to gladly trade the lives of Palestinians and Americans in exchange for authoritarianism. And if the person I choose to vote for (wins and) doesn’t live up to my expectations, if this person does not aid in Middle East tensions, I’ll still sleep well at night knowing how much more traumatic it would have been with the alternative.
I give a shit about this world. I will not be part of the downfall of democracy and the promise of more lives lost and freedoms around this world revoked for the sake of someone’s ego and business dealings. I will not throw out my vote.
I’m voting for Harris because I support a free Palestine. Because under Trump, Palestine is guaranteed to disappear.
Why does Netanyahu want Trump to be president so badly if Harris has the same position towards Israel as he does?
I think Obama daring to push back sliiiiiiiightly has led to Netanyahu pitting the DNC overall on his enemies list, which is bad news for the DNC, since we’re a vassal state of Israel.
The arrangement is the exact opposite
When did the US do anything to hurt Israel?
Now do the same thought process for Israel…
Remember USS Liberty
Israel is the US’ asset in the region. The UD props it up against nations seeking independent policies and it continues to serve in that capacity. There has been no impetus for the eventual betrayal as they have not outlived their purpose.
With an asset like that who needs enemies
As an ethnic supremacist apartheid settler colonist state genociding the indigenous population, Israel has a lot in common with the US and its history. It is, accordingly, not difficult to convince the US public to consent to everything Israel does. Maybe they feel bad about it, but ask them to do anything? Perish the thought!
The arrangement is never the opposite. Our “allies” have been exploiting our internal politics and corrupt politicians to drive their preferred outcome going back to Korea. The fact that we are paying INFINITE money to protect foreigners while they perpetrate a genocide, and Americans in North Carolina are told to suck a dick by their own government they pay taxes to proves which state is the vassal (Israelis also get universal healthcare on our dime).
Our “allies” have been exploiting our internal politics and corrupt politicians to drive their preferred outcome going back to Korea.
Foreign lobbying from any given country could be banned any time they wanted to, of course, and they do so when it suits US imperial interests. Much of the money that does come through is just recycled US “aid” and US NGO directed.
And if legalized bribery is corruption (it is of course) then every major US politician is corrupt (they are of course).
The fact that we are paying INFINITE money to protect foreigners while they perpetrate a genocide, and Americans in North Carolina are told to suck a dick by their own government they pay taxes to proves which state is the vassal (Israelis also get universal healthcare on our dime).
It shows how much more interested the US state is in maximalist imperial domination than in helping its people domestically. If we start doing a full accounting of who is really paying for what, it will be a grand transfer from the global south to the north at gunpoint. Israel is one of those guns.
I’d argue it’s not under US “control” though, since the Israelis are bribing the politicians who would need to make the laws to ban those bribes (and even if that happened the Supreme Court is alllll about legal bribery). The imperial domination isn’t even domination because the tail is wagging the dog. Saudi Arabia literally did 9/11, and the “plan” for Gaza is to make it a Saudi emirate. The US government has become a platform on which our evil “allies” get to bid on outcomes while acting with impunity, in some cases literally against the US.
Israel is fully dependent on US and other Western funding. Historically it has only taken a threat to withdraw support for it to immediately cease whatever depravity that was too overt for imperial PR to spin. The tail cannot wag the dog, the dog is by far dominant. It is the global superpower. What it can do is attempt to negotiate its interests right up to where its master balks.
The Zionist lobby is largely domestic. Most Zionists are Christian and the largest funders are business interests tied to the MIC, fossil fuels, finance, tech, etc. The usual players. The ruling class. They understand their class interests, they know that they will lose money and positions if Iran is not undermined, if Syria doesn’t play ball, if Yemen does something as simple as a blockade.
Saudi Arabia is also a US asset for the petrodollar and its own part in destabilization, though it often plays more of a “both sides” role. They carried out a proxy campaign for the US against Yemen, for example. That is another genocide, one that Westerners are usually completely unaware of. Paralleling Gaza, initial statistics showed mass death of children, largely due to malnourishment due to US blockade and US-backef Saudi bombjng of civilian infrastructure. Paralleling Gaza, the statistics stopped updating because the people collecting them were targeted and killed.
Re: 9/11, the US found use in the Saudis’ support for Salafist militancy, leveraging it against governments and liberation movements across the region. The US literally funded the “mujahideen” in Afghanistan, built the foundations of al Qaeda. 9/11 was just blowback for US foreign policy that it then ramped up. For example, Daesh and FSA are tightly interwoven and the US has elevated Daesh commanders to important ranks. Nobody really wonders why Daesh never attacks Israel.
If you think the tail cannot wag the dog, I’d suggest you look into our history in Vietnam, where our installed dictator led us around by the nose, exploiting our domestic politics (and democrats’ weird compensatory masculinity BS around needing to be bigger warmongers than the Republicans). The domestic, Christian Zionist movement is 100% republican. I don’t see any of those “deplorables” coming anywhere near influence in a DNC White House. And what you’re saying about Saudi Arabia is 100% on point, but, I would just ask, who actually benefits? Strikes me as shades of Diem. The idiots in DC may THINK they’re running an empire, but the empire is running them to their own ends, on our dime, yielding nothing but a sea of blood and destruction.
Technically true, but our system serves money over the common good which allows Putin and Israel to put our politicians in their pocket through bribes, donations and lobbying.
The US does not support Israel due to legalized bribery. It sees an interest in Israel as a proxy for destabilization of any nations that choose policies in disagreement with US interests.
The idea of Russians owning US politicians is a fairy tale. There are real things to address, like your complicity in genocide.
Why take your voting advice from rumors of a fascist genocider?
“Hey you know how there is an unbelievably close race between a centrist who wants to maintain the status quo but may occssionally bend to public pressure and an outright madman who want burn democracy to the ground while lining his own pockets and rolling back social progress to the 1850s? You should totally protest vote for a party that doesn’t have its shit together enough to even get on the ballot everywhere and has no chance at all of winning. That will show them how you really feel!”
I cannot imagine why main stream American politics doesn’t take leftists seriously.
Grow up.
See, Leftists don’t believe Harris is a “centrist” but a genocidal Imperialist, similar to Trump. Harris hasn’t yet bent to public pressure either.
Hate to break it to you, but nearly twice as many Americans think we are providing the right amount of assistance, or should be providing more to Israel, than think we should be providing less in regards to their war. That is the direction of public pressure.
The primary mover isn’t public pressure, but the US Empire’s economic interests. Support for Israel is both lucrative for the Military Industrial Complex, and helps the US exert power in the region, securing the Petro-Dollar. This is how the US maintains financial supremacy, and hyper-exploits the Global South through brutal Imperialist IMF loans that it can write in its favor.
And you think the average American doesn’t enjoy being a beneficiary of that system?
Are we really a beneficiary? All the economic gains seem to only be realized at the top because the owner class has perfected the art of paying us the absolute minimum we need to survive.
An excellent question, one of the few in this thread. Not really. But as long as our gas is percieved to be less expensive than most of the rest of the world, and the well paying jobs it creates to build bombs and planes and such continue to exist, it will continue be viewed as beneficial.
You are hurting the owner class. Stop!
That’s a more complicated question, but it’s besides the point: the mechanisms the parties move by are the mechanisms that keep themselves in power, and that’s appealing to their donors.
You should be against genocide and not vote for any genocide candidate.
We can all see that in your condescending and largely unrealistic boilerplate lesser evil lecture, you conveniently ignored the elephant in the room.
Now, we could talk about how your electoralism logic is flawed, but as you all claim morality, I don’t think I should need to. You should be against genocide and act accordingly.
If you think voting in a way that helps Trump win is a vote against genocide, I have some bad news for you.
If you vote for a genocider, you vote for genocide. You shouldn’t do that. It’s wrong to support and normalize genocide.
I would love to vote for no genocide, but once again, even more genocide is not only on the ballot, but has taken the lead in the last few days. Meanwhile the no genocide candidate on offer here couldn’t manage to get on the ballot in enough places to to win and couldn’t be arsed to follow the rules in the places they did bother. So forgive me if I choose to live in reality and do the only thing I can that might actually stop the even more genocide guy.
I would love to vote for no genocide
Then don’t vote for a genocide candidate. Easy. Done.
Lots of things are easy when you refuse to acknowledge the consequences of your actions. Enjoy the sand in your ears.
You said you’d love to do something as if it’s difficult when it is actually trivially easy.
You should be against genocide and not vote for genocide candidates. You seem to disagree. So, tell me. Tell me, “I will vote for a genocide candidate and normalize genocide”. Acknowledge your compliciy before making your excuses.
You’re not wrong, but people who are voting against fascism are also not wrong. There are pros and cons to each.
If you support genocide there is little meaningful difference between you and any modern fascist.
If you believe genocide is the way to stop fascism, you’re a fascist.
Liberals love Leftists until Leftists extend their criticism to Liberals.
Liberals become reactionary monsters when someone has consistent left politics and doesn’t do whatever daddy genocide tells them.
Yep. Liberals use Leftists as a messaging aesthetic to toss aside when it comes time to get their hands dirty.
See, this is the kind of thing you bring up during primaries not when the field has narrowed down such that the only other viable contender is worse.
The dnc made sure there weren’t primaries.
Fuck off
You’re not going to be able to kick the Leftists off of Lemmy.ml.
Fuck off
Lol
You’ll join hexbear soon enough.
I already have a Hexbear account, I use my older Lemmy.ml account for broader fediverse content and Hexbear if I just want to relax or check the news thread.
No, you misunderstand me.
lemmy.ml will join hexbear soon enough.
The crazies from hb already migrated and made it far more militant and frenzied, defederation isn’t that far away.
You think it’s ok, but you also know a lot of them go way over the line, you just excuse it because you sympathize, that’s how it always works with extremists, thats how the GOP got where they are today, because the corporatists figured segregationist dixiecrats weren’t actually that bad, they just went a bit far in places.
Not sure what you’re getting at, here. Hexbear has always been a space for Marxists and Anarchists.
And they started migrating, like you, to lemmy.ml after they got defederated everywhere.
No? Hexbear was unfederated for 3 years, it only started federating a year ago. I joined Lemmy.ml 9 months ago, and Hexbear.net 4 months ago. Your entire timeline is wrong.
lmao look at the silly little stories
You should be against genocide.
Do you honestly think Donald Trump would somehow be LESS genocidal than Kamala Harris?
He literally said murder is a genetic predisposition.
You should be against genocide, not trying to normalize the genocider on your team.
You’re not meaningfully fighting genocide if you let the world backslide into even worse and more open genocidal ideology
Can you say, “I support a genocide candidate and normalizing genocide?”
That’s a wholly dishonest take and anyone paying attention would know better
It is plain and direct.
I told you that you should be against genocide and not support genocide candidates. You took issue with that and started making excuses.
You should be honest about what your position is, as apparently it disagrees with what I told you.
Fuck off
Pro-genocide liberal moment
It is 16 days until the election.
FOUR candidates are on the ballot in enough states to win:
Harris - Democratic 50 states + D.C. (538 EC)
Trump - Republican 50 states + D.C. (538 EC)
Oliver - Libertarian 47 states (477 EC)
Stein - Green 37 states (420 EC)https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_access_in_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election
Kennedy was on the ballot in enough states, 31 with 283 EC votes, but has since withdrawn.
Everybody else is an also ran.
Only Trump or Harris will win, no 3rd party has captured a single electoral college vote since 1968.
