Great chart! Is it from some report or article? Would be curious to read it.
Especially given the fact how undemocratic Israel is when it comes to Palestinians (no voting rights, no adequate political representation, no proper legal reresentation, making decisions in Israel that directly affect the West Bank which it essentially also rules, etc, and maybe some form of dignity if you are a Palestinian with Israeli citizenship but that is about it). Essentially it’s quite bold to claim to be a democracy while practicing apartheid on the side, and I have a feeling that that chart does not take this into account at all.
Just the first image on a search. But chart aside, saying something is a democracy doesn’t make a country good or bad. Israel is fundamentally a democracy by any argument. That doesn’t make their current far right government good. I think arguing about whether it’s a democracy or not just undercuts your larger argument. Israel let’s any citizen, regardless of ethnic origin, vote. Their Islamic citizens largely support the same wars the Jews do. Saying they don’t let Palestinians vote is sorta like saying the USA didn’t let Iraq vote while we were slaughtering them. Or more close to home if we started a war with Mexico. Even when the USA had slaves we were a democracy. We are still a democracy even when we do bad things. People are shit, and we vote.
I did not bring good/bad into this. By definition, can you really be a democracy if you are an apartheid regime where two thirds of your “residents” have low to no rights in gotingnor determining their future? Seriously asking.
Again, I’m not talking about Palestinians who are Israeli citizens so hope that makes it clearer.
By definition, can you really be a democracy if you are an apartheid regime where two thirds of your “residents” have low to no rights in gotingnor determining their future?
The population of the Palestinian territories is, closer to 1/3 of the whole of Israel/Palestine. But the answer is yes either way. The people of Israel have a fully functioning democracy, and have had for some time. If they use that democracy to create a brutal militarily controlled territory, Israel is still a democracy, even if their territories are not or even if their territories have limited self determination. Democracy is just a form of government, that form of government exists for the people living in Israel proper whether or not it exists for their territories.
I don’t see how. Democracy states that people have power to rule usually through voting. If not all the people have this power equally, is it really a democracy? It can look like one but not necessarily be one.
I think you’re making a values judgement instead of a logical one. No one was claiming the USA wasn’t a democracy when only male white land owners could vote. It was just a flawed society, but still a democracy.
Not the person you’re responding to but it’s close according to this graphic, basically Israel and Cypress.
Great chart! Is it from some report or article? Would be curious to read it.
Especially given the fact how undemocratic Israel is when it comes to Palestinians (no voting rights, no adequate political representation, no proper legal reresentation, making decisions in Israel that directly affect the West Bank which it essentially also rules, etc, and maybe some form of dignity if you are a Palestinian with Israeli citizenship but that is about it). Essentially it’s quite bold to claim to be a democracy while practicing apartheid on the side, and I have a feeling that that chart does not take this into account at all.
Just the first image on a search. But chart aside, saying something is a democracy doesn’t make a country good or bad. Israel is fundamentally a democracy by any argument. That doesn’t make their current far right government good. I think arguing about whether it’s a democracy or not just undercuts your larger argument. Israel let’s any citizen, regardless of ethnic origin, vote. Their Islamic citizens largely support the same wars the Jews do. Saying they don’t let Palestinians vote is sorta like saying the USA didn’t let Iraq vote while we were slaughtering them. Or more close to home if we started a war with Mexico. Even when the USA had slaves we were a democracy. We are still a democracy even when we do bad things. People are shit, and we vote.
I did not bring good/bad into this. By definition, can you really be a democracy if you are an apartheid regime where two thirds of your “residents” have low to no rights in gotingnor determining their future? Seriously asking.
Again, I’m not talking about Palestinians who are Israeli citizens so hope that makes it clearer.
The population of the Palestinian territories is, closer to 1/3 of the whole of Israel/Palestine. But the answer is yes either way. The people of Israel have a fully functioning democracy, and have had for some time. If they use that democracy to create a brutal militarily controlled territory, Israel is still a democracy, even if their territories are not or even if their territories have limited self determination. Democracy is just a form of government, that form of government exists for the people living in Israel proper whether or not it exists for their territories.
I don’t see how. Democracy states that people have power to rule usually through voting. If not all the people have this power equally, is it really a democracy? It can look like one but not necessarily be one.
I think you’re making a values judgement instead of a logical one. No one was claiming the USA wasn’t a democracy when only male white land owners could vote. It was just a flawed society, but still a democracy.
The USA?
And no that was not a democracy either. Not even a flawed one. Just flat out undemocratic. Just like Israel.
Feels like this “flawed democracy” stuff is just window dressing done by countries so they can maintain their undemocratic systems.