Where I live (Oklahoma City), I wouldn’t want to bike for at least 5 months of the year. Between mid April and late October, we are stupid hot and humid. We had lots of days this past summer that either got uncomfortably close to or passed 40°C. Dew points in the mid 20s all summer long. You’ll break a sweat just standing outside for more than about a minute or two.
Can’t imagine what it’s like for those sorry saps in Houston or Florida.
The comfortable temp for biking is significantly higher than it is for walking, especially with the right gear. 40°C is definitely beyond reasonable tho. Planting trees and decreasing the amount of asphalt would go a long way to make it a better proposition more of the year. A societal expectation that you don’t go or do anything when weather gets that hot could bridge the difference. Unfortunately that kind of philosophy is antithetical to capitalism’s demands for productivity.
Even if the city is flat as fuck you’ll still arrive sweaty if the climate is hot. Take Phoenix for example, you will sweat even if you are in the shade and doing no physical exercise because it’s commonly 46 degrees.
The desert is the only reason it is habitable, if it were less arid the humidity would make it even worse. The largest desert on earth is Antarctica, deserts don’t have to be hot, just low precipitation.
But what deserts do very well is solar potential due to lack of cloud cover and I don’t know why we can’t use solar to power electric rail for public transportation.
Hills are only the problem if you’re not biking regularly. I’m way out of shape, but after a year on living in a country with good infrastructure, hills aren’t a problem for me anymore, really. But first couple of months it was a bit brutal, for sure.
Biking in the cold and wet honestly isn’t that bad. Biking is my primary way of getting around all year in the PNW. When it gets real cold I put on normal snow gear. It definitely makes going outside more of a production tho.
A lot of it has more to do with what people are used to and feel is reasonable than with the actual conditions. If people saw more folks riding and actually knew people who rode I think people would be more open to try it.
Unmanaged ice/snow, unhealthy wet bulb temperatures, and getting run over due to car first infrastructure are the most significant barriers to more people using bikes as transportation IMO. If a society chooses to, all those things can be mitigated.
My favorite part of riding is that I get moderate physical activity for free. I would not spend near as much time being active otherwise.
Teach me the non-sweaty ways. I love my bike, but theres no way I can arrive not sweaty. Before you say go slow, I’m not letting no bus take my god-damn glory.
Sure, but I assume the conversation was about mechanical bikes. Personally, for a PEV I would choose something lighter and cheaper and forego the pedalling altogether, but my commute is only about 7.5 km one way.
In Germany those are only allowed to assist you up to 25kph, which means they only help you going up hills, everywhere else will be the same amount of effort
An Ebike is extremely helpful, especially if there are hills. Wear a breathable long sleeve SPF shirt. I like hemp and some of the stuff Colombia makes. If your route is safe enough don’t wear a helmet. Shorts and sandals are also helpful. I’ve had some success with lightweight merino clothes as well but they tend to get holey in a few years of frequent use
When I biked to work there was a YMCA right next to my office, so I would ride in early, get in a workout and a shower at the Y and then walk two minutes to work. The only downsides were 1) getting chased by pitbulls and 2) having to look at fat old judges lounging around the locker room stark naked before starting their day of sending probably-innocent black men to prison for decades (both hazards of life in Louisiana).
Obviously I can shower at work but then I need to get in 15 minutes early and then I have to blow-dry my hair and it is just a whole thing now.
You might not see the above as a problem but for me, the problem is I can for the life of me not get up earlier than I have to, I am just not a morning person. If I can manage to brew a pot of coffee and have a quick breakfast before I have to get out the door, that is a successfull morning.
No dude, two thirds of my office commutes in by bike. I’m just in decent shape and cycling at a reasonable pace doesn’t make me break a sweat. For most people in decent shape it doesn’t make you sweat more than walking.
If public transport can come without being subjected to people and whatever miserable state of mind they’re in, I’d like that. I can at least escape a dumbass in my car, but in a train they’re either right in front of me or nearby for a long time. How do we fix this?
Public transport is clean and safe when everyone uses it. In the US, the social expectation is that public transportation is for the poor. Like white flight out of US urban centers in the 60s, it’s a class thing, and owning a car becomes a self perpetuating class signifier. In most of the rest of the developed world, like London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. public transportation is for everyone, rich and poor. It’s just a question of investing in and valuing public transportation over cars.
Hmm idk about cars as a class signifier, they’re like phones now, everyone has one. I don’t disagree with you about public transport being for everyone, but I am not sure that examples of harassment and human misery will necessarily decrease because richer people are forced to commute. See for example, the price-based communal vans in Asian countries. I think it makes sense to actively work on making public transit better, but that requires an open eyed approach to acknowledging existing problems. Nothing can have perfect solutions, but an attempt needs to be made to at least acknowledge the issue and provide a preliminary solution.
The reason you’re not afraid of being in public in any other circumstances are in public transportation is exactly, precisely because public transportation in US is shitty and stigmatized and the expectation is that only the poor are using it. This is the source of the problem, and the way to fix i is to improve it so everyone is using it, and the crowd in public transport will be the same as everywhere
The examples listed as better public transport still have the harassment and human misery issues. I don’t think it’s simply a matter of “get more people using it”. For one I think people who engage in harassment of any form should lose the privilege to use public transportation for a period of time, like we do with drunk drivers and their licenses. Or get them to go to classes like we do for road rage people. Maybe other countries are already doing this.
No, good public transportation will not eliminate all the misery in the people’s lives, but also it isn’t suppose to, and nothing will. Good public transportation however helps with making it the same level of misery as anywhere else, and usually even more. The particular issue of harassment isn’t an issue in a good public transportation, because there are people there, there are structures, there are authorities and systems that can help. And besides, it’s not like people just decide to harass other people the second they go into metro.
, because there are people there, there are structures, there are authorities and systems that can help.
Bystander effect is real, plenty of people have been harassed without the harasser facing any consequences. I think one improvement over our current system would be to disallow harassers the use of public transport for a period of time, or provide them with mental health help? I am not sure if it’s the best solution, but it’s kind of similar to what we do with people who drive drunk, or those who have to get anger management classes after road rage. Fines would also be a good idea.
An anecdote: there was a lady once on a subway platform who was yelling about colored people. She wasn’t bothering anyone in particular, though. There was at least one incident of someone stabbing and killing someone for defending minorities. These interactions are not safe for people and defenders alike. Moreover, you cannot react fast enough in some instances if someone wants to hurt you. For example, people have been pushed off train platforms. Regarding getting police help, if someone is walking around wearing a poster of “Christ hates gays” or something, the police might not do anything because of free speech laws (or because they agree sometimes).
These things are all kinda related, better housing policies lead to less homelessness and less instability, and therefore people with less mental issues. I don’t think simply having more efficient public transportation will make using public transport safer. Perfect solutions don’t exist, so at the very least I hope there are also anti-harassment policies like fines, losing privileges for a reasonable and proportionate amount of time, or having to take mandatory classes or providing mental health help for the harasser.
I want good public transportation as well, but for me the definition of good also includes having adequate safety measures.
That said, I really appreciate the passion some community members display for their topics of interest. What gets annoying for me though is what appears to be an utter lack of empathy or consideration for an alternative view. I think I am done, honestly—some people will think I am inconsiderate regardless of what I say. Whatever.
Here’s some news from places with great public transportation which supports my point that efficient does not equal safe:
This is my favorite argument from carfolk, because they’ll treat walking one block from a bus station as some cardinal sin but will happily walk four blocks from a parking spot.
Cities with transit typically have several different ways of getting around.
For my last job, som e choices were:
express bus plus walk a couple blocks
train and walk a mile
train to subway and walk a couple blocks
drive to subway and walk a couple blocks
train to subway to another subway into basement of my building
I’m not even counting scooter and bike share but I chose each of these options depending g on what was best at the time. But my most common choice was the train and walk a mile. It was a bit of a walk but I didn’t have to deal with people or waiting and it was close enough. But maybe you prefer walking less or like the scooter or bike shares: great, make the choice that’s best for you
Edit to add: for those unfamiliar with transit - every place will be different but I paid a monthly train pass based on my distance from the city. That pass included unlimited express buses, and unlimited subway rides within the city. So much freedom and convenience! One monthly fee let me go anywhere in the city, so much cheaper and easier than dealing with a car!
With trains, you don’t arrive sweaty, you can’t get run down by cars, and someone else parks it
I ride a bike to work every day. I’m never sweaty. The infrastructure to cycle exists so I won’t get run over by cars.
Where I live I wouldn’t want to bike. Too many freaking hills
Where I live (Oklahoma City), I wouldn’t want to bike for at least 5 months of the year. Between mid April and late October, we are stupid hot and humid. We had lots of days this past summer that either got uncomfortably close to or passed 40°C. Dew points in the mid 20s all summer long. You’ll break a sweat just standing outside for more than about a minute or two.
Can’t imagine what it’s like for those sorry saps in Houston or Florida.
The comfortable temp for biking is significantly higher than it is for walking, especially with the right gear. 40°C is definitely beyond reasonable tho. Planting trees and decreasing the amount of asphalt would go a long way to make it a better proposition more of the year. A societal expectation that you don’t go or do anything when weather gets that hot could bridge the difference. Unfortunately that kind of philosophy is antithetical to capitalism’s demands for productivity.
I live in a somewhat hilly city. That is why I have an electric bike. I’m never sweaty when I arrive at work
Even if the city is flat as fuck you’ll still arrive sweaty if the climate is hot. Take Phoenix for example, you will sweat even if you are in the shade and doing no physical exercise because it’s commonly 46 degrees.
Phoenix is not a great example of how we should design cities. Putting a city in a desert is a bad idea from the outset.
The desert is the only reason it is habitable, if it were less arid the humidity would make it even worse. The largest desert on earth is Antarctica, deserts don’t have to be hot, just low precipitation.
But what deserts do very well is solar potential due to lack of cloud cover and I don’t know why we can’t use solar to power electric rail for public transportation.
I have an electric bike for the hills.
Where I used to work it was downhill all the way there and uphill all the way back stupid way round of having it don’t want to get to work early.
Hills are only the problem if you’re not biking regularly. I’m way out of shape, but after a year on living in a country with good infrastructure, hills aren’t a problem for me anymore, really. But first couple of months it was a bit brutal, for sure.
Where I live biking to work wouldn’t be popular because it’s too cold and Americans hate exercise
Biking in the cold and wet honestly isn’t that bad. Biking is my primary way of getting around all year in the PNW. When it gets real cold I put on normal snow gear. It definitely makes going outside more of a production tho.
A lot of it has more to do with what people are used to and feel is reasonable than with the actual conditions. If people saw more folks riding and actually knew people who rode I think people would be more open to try it.
Unmanaged ice/snow, unhealthy wet bulb temperatures, and getting run over due to car first infrastructure are the most significant barriers to more people using bikes as transportation IMO. If a society chooses to, all those things can be mitigated.
My favorite part of riding is that I get moderate physical activity for free. I would not spend near as much time being active otherwise.
Teach me the non-sweaty ways. I love my bike, but theres no way I can arrive not sweaty. Before you say go slow, I’m not letting no bus take my god-damn glory.
E bike.
Sure, but I assume the conversation was about mechanical bikes. Personally, for a PEV I would choose something lighter and cheaper and forego the pedalling altogether, but my commute is only about 7.5 km one way.
In Germany those are only allowed to assist you up to 25kph, which means they only help you going up hills, everywhere else will be the same amount of effort
30 in Canadaz that’s enough speed for commuting.
You just don’t treat it as a competition, but as a relaxed stroll. Don’t care about any buses, just vibe with the flow.
Thats the thing though, for me the flow to vibe with is some banger tunes and pedalling as hard as I can. 😅
An Ebike is extremely helpful, especially if there are hills. Wear a breathable long sleeve SPF shirt. I like hemp and some of the stuff Colombia makes. If your route is safe enough don’t wear a helmet. Shorts and sandals are also helpful. I’ve had some success with lightweight merino clothes as well but they tend to get holey in a few years of frequent use
When I biked to work there was a YMCA right next to my office, so I would ride in early, get in a workout and a shower at the Y and then walk two minutes to work. The only downsides were 1) getting chased by pitbulls and 2) having to look at fat old judges lounging around the locker room stark naked before starting their day of sending probably-innocent black men to prison for decades (both hazards of life in Louisiana).
Obviously I can shower at work but then I need to get in 15 minutes early and then I have to blow-dry my hair and it is just a whole thing now.
You might not see the above as a problem but for me, the problem is I can for the life of me not get up earlier than I have to, I am just not a morning person. If I can manage to brew a pot of coffee and have a quick breakfast before I have to get out the door, that is a successfull morning.
He’s sweaty…he’s the BO guy in his office.
No dude, two thirds of my office commutes in by bike. I’m just in decent shape and cycling at a reasonable pace doesn’t make me break a sweat. For most people in decent shape it doesn’t make you sweat more than walking.
Must be nice 🥲
It is.
And you don’t need to worry about driving
I love trains but they give me so much anxiety. I have stories of facing harassment on public transport. But it’s not just me though, here’s some idea of why public transport can suck for women or other people in case my anecdotes are just that: https://www.metro-magazine.com/10111994/sexual-crime-and-harassment-on-public-transportation-a-study
California had to make a law for race-based harassment, so it’s not just a one place or just sex-based harassment issue: https://19thnews.org/2023/02/california-introduces-bill-harassment-safety-public-transit-systems/
If public transport can come without being subjected to people and whatever miserable state of mind they’re in, I’d like that. I can at least escape a dumbass in my car, but in a train they’re either right in front of me or nearby for a long time. How do we fix this?
Public transport is clean and safe when everyone uses it. In the US, the social expectation is that public transportation is for the poor. Like white flight out of US urban centers in the 60s, it’s a class thing, and owning a car becomes a self perpetuating class signifier. In most of the rest of the developed world, like London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. public transportation is for everyone, rich and poor. It’s just a question of investing in and valuing public transportation over cars.
Hmm idk about cars as a class signifier, they’re like phones now, everyone has one. I don’t disagree with you about public transport being for everyone, but I am not sure that examples of harassment and human misery will necessarily decrease because richer people are forced to commute. See for example, the price-based communal vans in Asian countries. I think it makes sense to actively work on making public transit better, but that requires an open eyed approach to acknowledging existing problems. Nothing can have perfect solutions, but an attempt needs to be made to at least acknowledge the issue and provide a preliminary solution.
The reason you’re not afraid of being in public in any other circumstances are in public transportation is exactly, precisely because public transportation in US is shitty and stigmatized and the expectation is that only the poor are using it. This is the source of the problem, and the way to fix i is to improve it so everyone is using it, and the crowd in public transport will be the same as everywhere
The examples listed as better public transport still have the harassment and human misery issues. I don’t think it’s simply a matter of “get more people using it”. For one I think people who engage in harassment of any form should lose the privilege to use public transportation for a period of time, like we do with drunk drivers and their licenses. Or get them to go to classes like we do for road rage people. Maybe other countries are already doing this.
No, good public transportation will not eliminate all the misery in the people’s lives, but also it isn’t suppose to, and nothing will. Good public transportation however helps with making it the same level of misery as anywhere else, and usually even more. The particular issue of harassment isn’t an issue in a good public transportation, because there are people there, there are structures, there are authorities and systems that can help. And besides, it’s not like people just decide to harass other people the second they go into metro.
Bystander effect is real, plenty of people have been harassed without the harasser facing any consequences. I think one improvement over our current system would be to disallow harassers the use of public transport for a period of time, or provide them with mental health help? I am not sure if it’s the best solution, but it’s kind of similar to what we do with people who drive drunk, or those who have to get anger management classes after road rage. Fines would also be a good idea.
An anecdote: there was a lady once on a subway platform who was yelling about colored people. She wasn’t bothering anyone in particular, though. There was at least one incident of someone stabbing and killing someone for defending minorities. These interactions are not safe for people and defenders alike. Moreover, you cannot react fast enough in some instances if someone wants to hurt you. For example, people have been pushed off train platforms. Regarding getting police help, if someone is walking around wearing a poster of “Christ hates gays” or something, the police might not do anything because of free speech laws (or because they agree sometimes).
These things are all kinda related, better housing policies lead to less homelessness and less instability, and therefore people with less mental issues. I don’t think simply having more efficient public transportation will make using public transport safer. Perfect solutions don’t exist, so at the very least I hope there are also anti-harassment policies like fines, losing privileges for a reasonable and proportionate amount of time, or having to take mandatory classes or providing mental health help for the harasser.
I want good public transportation as well, but for me the definition of good also includes having adequate safety measures.
That said, I really appreciate the passion some community members display for their topics of interest. What gets annoying for me though is what appears to be an utter lack of empathy or consideration for an alternative view. I think I am done, honestly—some people will think I am inconsiderate regardless of what I say. Whatever.
Here’s some news from places with great public transportation which supports my point that efficient does not equal safe:
from Japan: https://tankenjapan.com/how-common-is-chikan-unwanted-touching-on-trains-in-japan/
From 6 days ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8829ked1x3o
on buses, https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-crime-statistics
from Germany: https://www.thelocal.de/20230301/which-german-train-stations-have-the-highest-crime-rates
Note that I am not using one-off incidences as examples, but what you’d expect to be routine crime on a given day.
Wouldn’t it be great if we could each have our own private pods?
Yes actually, not sure if sarcastic.
Not sarcastic. It would be such a relief.
Only if you live at one train station and work at another.
You can also do this thing called walking. Although I am aware that in the United States that is considered suspicious behavior.
Im from europe, train stations here are a little more than walking distance apart.
The public transit isn’t that great where I live by European standards. I use a Brompton folding bike to make up the difference. It’s great for trains
This is my favorite argument from carfolk, because they’ll treat walking one block from a bus station as some cardinal sin but will happily walk four blocks from a parking spot.
Cities with transit typically have several different ways of getting around.
For my last job, som e choices were:
I’m not even counting scooter and bike share but I chose each of these options depending g on what was best at the time. But my most common choice was the train and walk a mile. It was a bit of a walk but I didn’t have to deal with people or waiting and it was close enough. But maybe you prefer walking less or like the scooter or bike shares: great, make the choice that’s best for you
Edit to add: for those unfamiliar with transit - every place will be different but I paid a monthly train pass based on my distance from the city. That pass included unlimited express buses, and unlimited subway rides within the city. So much freedom and convenience! One monthly fee let me go anywhere in the city, so much cheaper and easier than dealing with a car!
It’s common to bus to the train station, and yes train stations downtown are where many people work.