- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
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I feel like Stewart was directly voicing the concerns I’ve had over Biden for basically his entire term. He just doesn’t seem to get it that the fascists are playing for keeps.
I also like that he’s grounded in his suggestion of opening up the conversation, rather than immediately calling for Biden to step down. The DNC should’ve started poll testing alternates immediately after the debate. There needs to be an informed plan for an alternate. Calling for Biden to withdraw with a four month runway, without a more popular and independently funded candidate is reactionary and reckless.
The DNC should’ve started poll testing alternates immediately after the debate.
They should’ve done that after he got elected! Ppl campaign for president 2 years before the actually election. How is everyone thinking 4 months is enough?!
Honestly a short campaign could be beneficial, more enthusiasm less apathy and sick of them. Campaigns should be 4 months or less.
I agree that four months is insufficient time to prepare and execute a campaign. They had no reason to poll test earlier, since Biden won the 2024 primary.
To be fair, the fascists make it very hard to take them seriously. I can see why an elderly lifelong politician doesn’t understand the threat. Most days I wake up and don’t understand how it’s come to this.
It’s pretty clear that Biden should’ve stepped down as soon as COVID ‘ended’ and he passed his big infrastructure/climate bill.
He’d have been a modern Cincinnatus, and would have given Harris the best opportunity to make her case to the voters.
If he chose an actual VP people wanted, it would have worked.
Harris has an even worse chance of winning considering no one wanted her in the primaries.
Harris SUCKS and she would have lost worse than Hillary. She was always an awful VP which is part of our predicament.
I was so giddy over Buttigieg in '20. Followed by Elizabeth Warren. Biden was my 4th or 5th pick, with Kamala just before Amy Klobachar at last place. She’s just unlikeable.
Why is she an awful VP? I hear people say this all the time and never really substantiate it other than she’s awkward at public speaking sometimes. I genuinely don’t know much about her other than that.
Plus she’s currently polled as the best replacement to Biden as it is right now. And personally I think that’s who Dems should go with if they actually want to win. I don’t see how you pull Biden back in the polls after that debate. You just don’t. So we have to clench our asses and hope those polls are wrong? It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion.
Absolutely no actual convictions. Tries to trade policy for party position as a rule. The one current issue she actually seems to have a decent stance on is Gaza but that stance isn’t an action plan, it’s just “I understand the concerns.”
Tl;Dr she’s just a cop that will say anything to be president. Who knows what she’d do if she catches the tire and it happens?
Biden is open game until the convention. After that it is time to circle the wagons.
The wagons were already circled with that joke of a primary.
Biden needs to fuck off. He’s going to lose us the Republic.
You see it. I see it. Jon Stewart sees it since forever.
The shills on Lemmy and other places like gaslighting. A lot.
Honestly, I hate the situation, but I haven’t heard any compelling arguments for alternatives.
By compelling, I don’t mean appealing. I’d love for any number of other candidates to just swap in. But because the U.S. got “Weekend at Bernie’d”, and primaries were held (with no realistic opposition candidates), or cancelled in the case of Florida and Delaware, and the dates for holding a primary have passed in every state, I just… don’t see how another candidate can be swapped in.*
And I know that John Stewart specifically called out other nations who were able to call entire elections within a few months, but the U.S. electoral system just doesn’t ‘do’ that. The focus on states rights means that every state has its own laws that are fairly rigid and cannot be overridden by the federal government. And even if the states could be overridden - well, I guess I don’t know if it’s possible for the federal government to do that.
I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of that suggestion as being even a remote possibility. I’m left with the belief that it is not legally permissible.In fact - the Heritage Foundation said they would mount legal challenges to prevent this from occurring - but only in certain states. It’s very likely those challenges could not be resolved before the election, which would lead to at least two Democratic Party candidates, and certain defeat for both of them. The only way that Biden could drop out is if the states that have laws prohibiting candidate changes repeal or modify them, and that itself might be the subject of lawsuits.
*The only way I see for Biden to drop out and not ensure certain defeat is to die. That’s the only path I can think of that’s workable.
If I truly believe that Trump will end democracy and I must do everything I can to prevent his election - even if it compromises my better judgment and morals, and I know that Biden will not use the powers he was just granted to ensure that Trump is brought to justice before he can assume dictatorial powers, then… well, what’s the option but to be a shill? That’s not a rhetorical question. I legitimately feel trapped and hopeless by this shitty system, and I cannot see a way out.
I feel like I’m damned if I do, and damned if I don’t.The only state which was a risk was Ohio, which already amended its rule for this year to allow the selection after the dem convention. There is no legal problem here, the dems simply need to choose a new candidate at their convention.
That’s the problem with the patchwork of laws.
Ohio has a law that says the candidates must be declared by August 9th, but the DNC isn’t until after that. (But Ohio cleared the way for that, as you noted.)
Nevada, however, requires that the political parties submit their candidates when the state convention is held by a given party, and does not seem to have an actual cut-off date.
Each major political party shall, at the state convention of the major political party held in that year, select from the qualified electors who are legally registered members of the major political party: (a) A nominee to the position of presidential elector; and (b) An alternate to the nominee for presidential elector.
I’m actually somewhat confused on this one - the Democratic Nevada convention was May 18th, but the article I posted above says their cut-off was June 28th. Both dates have passed, mind you. But I wonder where the June 28th date came from.
The deadline for Georgia was July 9th - yesterday.
My information for both Nevada and Georgia came from Ballotpedia. The page also notes that many states have their filing deadlines before the DNC, but it’s my understanding that the Democratic Party plans to deal with this by nominating him via conference call in advance of these deadlines - so I think the clock is about a month shorter than people may consider, when looking at the date of the DNC.
I don’t know why the first article I posted mentions Wisconsin. I think you’re right - if Biden withdraws and releases his delegates before the nomination deadlines/conference call to make it official, many states (such as Wisconsin) won’t be an issue. I’m unclear if democrats can submit an alternative candidate in Georgia, and I think they can only offer up the alternative candidate they would have specified during their convention for Nevada.
Nevada is fairly reliably democrat-leaning, and Georgia has been changing a lot lately, with expectations to swing democrat again. Even if democrats did lose Georgia, the state would still be a battleground, which saps resources from the republican presidential effort. (Side note: If that played out and democrats couldn’t field a candidate. I would expect third party or write-in candidates to get an outsized proportion of the vote. That could be a great opportunity for third parties to perhaps get legal recognition and benefits that comes with that.)
It does seem like slightly less of an issue now that I’ve dug a bit deeper into it. However who knows how things will go in states without defined laws - that could be a boondoggle if injunctions get filed.
But there are legal issues already, and those will continue to grow as time goes on.I don’t know, man.
If Biden, god forbid, had a stroke tonight and was lying in a coma, is there no facility to change the candidate to someone else. Or would you be locked in to voting for a candidate in a vegative state?
Each major political party shall, at the state convention of the major political party held in that year, select from the qualified electors who are legally registered members of the major political party: (a) A nominee to the position of presidential elector; and (b) An alternate to the nominee for presidential elector.
I’m actually somewhat confused on this one - the Democratic Nevada convention was May 18th, but the article I posted above says their cut-off was June 28th. Both dates have passed, mind you. But I wonder where the June 28th date came from.
These are rules for selecting the electors, not the candidates. They’re the “elector” part of the “electoral college”.
I think you’re right on that front, which makes it doubly frustrating – because then you got multiple websites parroting bad information. And in turn, I may have parroted bad information.
I spent a few hours trying to find the relevant statutes to understand what was “right”, and not one made sense to me. It seems like they have different rules for major parties vs independent candidates, but fuck if I could figure out the rules for major parties.
It does seem weird that these things are so opaque, right? If you get to the right place you can find the Democrats’ rules, but the voting clause isn’t 100% unambiguous. It says you have to “in good conscience” represent the will of the voters that sent you. And on top of that there are a bunch of state laws about the delegates, but it’s unclear which ones are even legal as the Supreme Court said the parties are private entities and the states can’t tell them how to run their business.
Hmm…I wasn’t aware of the stipulations surrounding Nevada, that’s actually a bit worrisome. Thanks for pointing this out, will need to read up on it more. I honestly think GA is a lost cause this year for the Dems but we shall see.
Keen for the possibility you laid out for 3rd parties to get a foothold, hoping to see that exact scenario unfold! There are many who feel reforming the Dems is the only way towards the Left, but the party seems like such a lost cause. If only a populist 3rd party candidate could get just a small foothold, I could see voters backing them in monumental droves within just 1 election cycle. Ah, the dream.
Well, someone pointed out that the Nevada statute quoted was for their electoral college candidates, not the president. (I had noted the word elector, but figured it was goofy legal terminology.)
I couldn’t then figure out what the actual Nevada statute for presidential nominees are (it seems they’re different depending on whether the nominee is part of a major political party).Nevada may still pose an issue but I can’t argue they are with as much confidence. I just can’t figure out the actual laws around it with my own eyes and brain.
Well said.
I get Jon Stewart’s position and agree with nearly all of his criticisms, but I think the biggest thing he’s not acknowledging in his “why can France and the UK do this but we can’t?” argument is that this would absolutely not be confined to just the Democratic Party. Literally every step of the process would be decried as election fraud, cheating, “the steal of the century” etc. by republicans. If they got pissed enough to attempt an insurrection in 2020 when there was absolutely no credible evidence of fraud, just think where things will go if there’s this whole slew of unprecedented last-minute decisions that are nearly impossible to reconcile with every individual states’ laws. I’m not saying we have to bow to repubs demands, but the more excuses they have to claim anything isn’t above board, the greater the risk that the “stolen election” narrative gains traction beyond the far right.
We’ve spent the last 4 years witnessing how slowly our legal system works on huge matters like this. By the time the dust settles on all of the legal challenges, the resulting chaos will have already rendered the decisions nearly irrelevant.
They have zero say in Democratic party policies and decisions. You guys are so conditioned to think Republicans are unstoppable political juggernauts you proactively give them power to define your actions. It doesn’t matter if they claim it’s a fraud, it’s not their party and the Democratic voters most distrustful of the Democratic party don’t like Biden in the first place.
Some states have laws about electors voting for the candidate they were elected to represent, but they can be released from that requirement by the candidate. Some have voting round limits, which can just be bypassed with perfunctory votes without a majority. And if there are some laws that can’t be bypassed, they can just officially vote for Joe Biden while expressing their actual preference publicly. The party can very easily work around the state laws to achieve an equivalent result.
There is no causal link between voting fraud and the insurrection. They lost and don’t know how to lose anymore. They think they are superior to everybody else and hate it when they have to face reality.
The gaslighting is really pervasive, and most troubling. This is not the way to combat the fascists with their “alternative facts.”
Biden built his career on being a Republican basically - he was known as the Senator of “bipartisan compromise” who would always rush to give republicans whatever they wanted. Putting heads in the sand and pretending that we have to roll with Republican-lite to defeat a fascist uprising just seems incredibly foolish to me. Or pretending that Biden is even sound of mind anymore, for that matter. People don’t seem willing to have an honest conversation about anything anymore. Very unhealthy democracy right now.
gaslighting
republican-lite
Interesting
IMHO, calling people shills is just going to make people defensive and not listen to reasonable arguments.
For real! Here on Lemmy we prefer to call people tankies and Russian bots.
I mean, there is that Lemmy dev with a git repo of self published communist manifestos, but who doesn’t have like 8 of those laying around.
You are right, Jesus
To be fair, there is an unusually vocal tankie minority here.
Look at their tag, it’s .ml, they’re a Tankie trying to dilute the term
I can’t see their tag without taking the time to pull up their profile. Not sure if it’s different on Lemmy, but I’m on mbin. It would be a nice feature to be able to see which instance a commenter is coming from without pulling up their profile.
Basic mobile Lemmy with the lemm.ee prefix lets me see instance next to username (no instance means they are on the same instance as me). And man, with how much gaslighting and server hopping the Tankies do here, I dont think I would have survived on here as long as I have without it. I already get suckered into to many arguements that decrease my mental health, having a huge red flag that a user may be arguing with me in bad faith helps nudge me into just blocking and not engaging. Lemmy is a double edged sword for me, I get far more tools for curation than reddit ever gave, but because of some of the more extreme “factions” that hang out here, I actually have to use them far more often
That’s the spirit!
Lmao, you .ml hexbears really cant think of more than one talking point
Yeah, so many times people claim only shills disagree and I’m standing here like, I’m a shill, damn didn’t know…
Calling people tankies does the same thing but you aren’t criticizing those idiots.
Yes yes the people on lemmy who disagree with you are the real powers behind the decision on whether he drops out or not
I have a feeling the DNC shills we’ve been seeing so much of are actually part of a DNC campaign. Creating a Lemmy account is free and they could easily contract a company to astroturf as has been done in the past.
When politicians and their families taste power they can’t let it go.
Biden’s chances of winning are something like 95%. The most accurate and seasoned model for predicting the election has him winning (it’s a boolean) and it was only wrong once, which was when Bush got a controversial ruling in his favor by the Supreme Court, which knocks its accuracy down to ~95% instead of 100%.
Also consider: Trump already lost to Biden, Trump’s popularity has contracted since then, 538 puts Biden 2% above where he was before the debate, all of the polls that put Biden and Trump neck-and-neck also show 18-25 YOs overwhelmingly voting for Trump, Dems win with higher voter turnout, the recent controversy with the Supreme Court is looking to drive people to the polls in record numbers, and people are currently looking up “Project 2025” more than Taylor Swift and the NFL combined (it’s probably going to be searched more than Taylor Swift at her peak, if you look at the growth curve).
So why, exactly, are you making this claim? 🤨
Edit: y’all’re doomers who hate facts.
Edit2: The 13 Keys to the White House. That’s the subject of the 1st paragraph.
Edit3: I’m not responding to anyone who isn’t putting forth an argument or demanding evidence while giving none. I’m sick of talking with dishonest creeps for the week.
Fuck polls. Only voting matters. Don’t get complacent.
Correct.
The 13 keys have no credibility ; they are like calling a ball or a strike after the replay with the video box
A track record of 9/10 is “no credibility”
Reasoning: I want you to be wrong, so I’ve decided it to be so.
I wish I was wrong in 2016 too when every chump said Hillary had a 95% chance of winning but it was clear as day she wasn’t going to be President. Barreling towards the same terrible outcome. Any other view is simply put of touch with the reality on the ground. Sure he’s going to win the popular vote again but that don’t matter in America.
I love how this reply entirely fails to address the point.
Also? Biden already won against Trump, and that was before Jan6.
You’re right your response addresses 2024. Never said he couldn’t/wouldn’t be president in 2020.
Because I have eyes, ears, and more than like 3 functioning neurons.
Nice source, btw.
You’re criticizing me for not having a source when you didn’t even put forth an argument. You just said a thing you assumed was true without anything backing it up. Also, almost everything I stated was a well-known fact.
It’s on you to produce this mysterious model, not on me to believe in bullshit over empirical observation. Kindly fuck off.
Tf is empirical observation? Are you just attaching words to your feelings in the hopes they’ll sound more valid?
The Keys to the White House. There are 13 criteria called “keys” if the incumbent “has 8 keys” (at least 8 criteria are true) Biden has at least 5 keys, and he appears to have 3 others. The system has correctly predicted 9/10 elections elections and the 1 that it failed at had shenanigans (look up Bush v. Gore).
So what have your eyes and ears told you that’s so convincing? Have you spoken with many formerly undecided voters? How about former Trump supporters?
Right? This thread has more bots than Mars
The video:
Jon Stewart Examines Biden’s Future Amidst Calls For Him to Drop Out https://youtu.be/S9LZXheHddI
Yeah, sorry, all of this shit has been on full display since day one. We always knew he was a senile career politician invested in maintaining the status quo. What, you think all of us who were genuinely excited about Bernie Sanders didn’t all fucking see this? Like the DNC isn’t a corrupt organization? EVERYONE KNEW THIS. What, now that we’re facing this fascist existential threat is when you wanna bring it up?
Hey guys I know that the demon king showed up out of the portal to hell, and we placed all of our faith and hope in defeating him with this aging warrior, but how about right before he goes into battle we ridicule and taunt him? Especially since the power that the warrior has is derived from those that support him, let’s just make sure that after the corrupt org forces this dumbass fucking “solution” onto us, and makes us all realize that him losing means we end up speed-running a fascist dictatorship, let’s just make sure to shoot our warrior in both kneecaps right before his big fight. Can we do that? Can we just place all of our hopes and dreams into this one vessel and then fucking shoot it because for some reason NOW neo-liberals are just waking up to what everyone else has known SINCE DAY FUCKING ONE!?
The time for this was before the South Carolina primary in 2016 and 2020. Not now. No, 4 months isn’t enough fucking time. Every moron who forced Biden down our throats deserves the next 4 months of pant-shitting nightmares because this is their fucking fault. But anyone saying this bullshit now is just trying to score points like this is a fucking game. It’s not. It’s our lives and the future of our fucking planet. just vote for progressives, and when you can’t vote for the democrat.
Huh.
^huh!
thank you Jon Stewart please come to my house
Horniest Lemmy user
You sure? There’s some VERY stiff competition, pun intended.
MSNBC: Jon Stewart is out of line!
MSNBC one month later: Okay, point taken…
Biden is going to get fucking trounced. But he’ll have given it “his all”.
Didn’t you know that presidential candidates are held to the same standards as children at t-ball games?
Hey! You take that back. He answered all his questions.
These threads are great at baiting the .ml tankies out so I can block them. It’d be nice if server blocks also blocked all their members, but Tank traps like this’ll have to do for now
I think you opened the wrong app, maybe you wanted to open notepad so you can be sure you are the only one typing in there.
Lmao
So you can remain in an echo chamber?
Tankies commentary provide absolutely zero value
Just like yours! ☺️
<3
blocking fascists and fascists wearing the skin of the lefties they killed is not creating an echo chamber
Wtf is a tankie in this case and how would this article attract them? Someone who doesn’t like Biden? Because there are tons of leftist reasons to not like Biden and it’s good to know them. Avoiding criticism of their dear leader and staying in echo chambers is how liberals wound up in this current predicament.
They simply call anyone who doesn’t see Biden as their god king ‘tankies’. They’ve become liberal MAGA lol
Wtf is a tankie in this case
Anyone to the left of Netanyahu.
Its less so this thread is targetted towards Tankies, and more so this is a topic that brings out the .ml crowd more than other topics, .ml being the most offending source of tankies now that hexbear is blocked by most communities. And a Tankie is a communist who supports states like Russia and China and how those states maintain their power.
I guess I don’t see how you would tell who is a tankie unless they started bringing up Russia or something. Because otherwise, if you’re just guessing because they’re criticizing Biden, it’s a pretty poor assumption.
It strikes me as saying, “Oh, here come all the antisemites” in a thread about Palestine. Like, sure, it might attract some, but until it does, you’re then prepping people to accept any criticism of Israel is antisemitism. Not sure if I can word what my issue is exactly, but I guess, it kind of comes off as purposefully shit-stirring to me lol.
Especially since previously, people would say this topic would attract tankies because any criticism of Biden would get people accused of being a tankie (I’d be accused of being a Russian shill for that even though I very much so don’t like Russia or their war, and I very much wanted a better candidate who could beat Trump). But now that this discourse has moved into the mainstream, it’s obvious that it was denial by everyone else before.
For me? It’s the .ml tag, if you are still in ML and not a Tankie, you’re either lying, or a useful idiot. Neither person is worth my time anymore. I’m not on the internet to be fair, its my own time and I’ll spend it on whom and however I wish, no one else is entitled to my attention.
So yes, I’m absolutely priming everyone else to be suspicious of what an .ml user is saying as there often isnt any value to it if they arent straight up being manipulative/duplicitous. There are plenty of reasons to have a nuanced discussion around Biden, but you arent going to get nuance from a Tankie
Echo chamber is when conservatives
But when Democrats
Biden should resign and let the VP take over. It’s why he picked her. The man just introduced Zelensky as “President Putin”. Good grief. His handler should be charged with elderly abuse.
I hate Kamala, but I agree. He’s not fit to be president. It’s high time to pass it off to the VP. That’s how the system is intended to work.
I didn’t need shit. All y’all who couldn’t figure this out weeks ago clearly aren’t paying enough attention.
Weeks ago? I’m talking years ago.
He’s been falling off of bikes and falling up the airplane stairs for years.
This thread has steered so deeply into surrealism i can’t even understand what sides you bots are taking.
In which ways?
I was at the n-th comment where i couldn’t honestly tell whether they were serious or ironic and for what side, I’ll look up some examples if i have time later
Their message is a bit mixed in that they’re using talking points from both sides, but the argument is completely valid.
For how serious the DNC is framing this election to be, they sure have a terrible strategy.
I don’t know why Biden voters don’t listen to non-Biden voters… over and over and over people have been pointing out his mental decline. But nope, they’re just all Biden hating trolls. But NOW, NOW… he has failing mental faculties. I don’t understand how people are entered into the Matrix. Does this happen during childhood / youth? It’s mind boggling. And no Republicans aren’t safe from the Matrix, they’re in the same fkin simulation as the left but on the opposite side.
They get downvoted once and cry, then they decide to just repeat whatever the DNC leaders say.
