There is no eternity of suffering, hell is a one-off event and it hasn’t happened yet (I’m a seventh day adventist, we do believe in “hell” but quite differently than most denominations)
As you say, you’re in the minority of Christians in your belief, and that many believe in the literal, eternal suffering, lake of fire kind of hell. Memes kind of have to cater to common denominators, so might then not pertain to you.
We don’t have many adventists where I’m from, would you entertain a theological question from your belief?
What role does Hell play in your denomination? In other Christianities it’s often a deterrent, source of God fear, and an answer to what happens to the out-group (heathens, gentiles, sinners, etc).
If Hell is a “short” event before eternal death-sleep (I googled adventist hell belief, sorry if I’m misunderstanding), it seems like it would be a very mild punishment for cardinal sins/heresy, but maybe you don’t have those?
Memes kind of have to cater to common denominators, so might then not pertain to you.
I know, but it still isn’t Biblical tho
What role does Hell play in your denomination? In other Christianities it’s often a deterrent, source of God fear, and an answer to what happens to the out-group (heathens, gentiles, sinners, etc).
tbh most of the times that I’ve heard it talked about are saying about how it’s a place rather than an event, pretty much what I’ve been saying here. It really is one of two choices: you can choose to be with God forever, or you can be apart from Him forever. He wants to be with you but it’s ultimately your choice.
If Hell is a “short” event before eternal death-sleep (I googled adventist hell belief, sorry if I’m misunderstanding)
That’s about it really
it seems like it would be a very mild punishment for cardinal sins/heresy, but maybe you don’t have those?
God wants to forgive us, but we need to let Him. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is to intentionally and consistently harden your heart and ignore Him-- how can you be forgiven if you ignore the one who wants to forgive you? If you’re wondering if you’ve done that and wether you can be forgiven, it’s not too late. You can still come back to Him.
Feel free to ask questions I don’t mind (I actually kinda enjoy it)
He wants to forgive us?? Then he could do it. He’s all powerful, all knowing after all. What do I have to be forgiven for? Original sin? Give me a break.
How many hoops do you need to jump through to arrive at a christian conclusion? How many times did you have to be told to believe in something unprovable and invisible?
Your fervent beliefs are likely held less strongly than some Hindus, Muslims, Jews, etc. They are ALL sure that you are wrong, just as you they. Can’t you see the futility of pretending to know something unknowable? If you had been born somewhere else, you would perhaps hold completely different views just as strongly.
You blindly place your trust in other humans who are telling you to believe in something utterly impossible. You really think they have translated divine will over millennia? Let alone accurately? If the devil exists, then he lives in the utter hubris of humanity. To think that we can know the unknowable.
Isn’t it convenient that the “devil” is responsible for sowing the seeds of doubt. Isn’t it convenient that no matter what logic and reason you apply, your religion can merely hand-wave and say it isn’t for us to know? Are you satisfied with non-answers and manipulation of your emotions?
You’re being duped. I genuinely hope you can find your way out.
He is omnipotent, he can simply forgive us without our involvement. Or allow forgiveness after death, because death is an arbitrary cutoff. Or provide more obvious evidence he exists instead of giving children cancer.
The meme is applicable to your beliefs as well. Guess correctly in ~100 years of life or be denied paradise for eternity.
He is omnipotent, he can simply forgive us without our involvement. Or allow forgiveness after death, because death is an arbitrary cutoff.
He could, but that wouldn’t be consistent with His character. It’d involve Him overriding the free will that He gave us. If you don’t let Him forgive you He won’t.
Or provide more obvious evidence he exists instead of giving children cancer.
There’s plenty of evidence. He’s not really hidden, but if you don’t want to find Him there’s a fair chance you won’t. And God doesn’t give kids cancer, this world is broken and fallen. This isn’t how it’s supposed to be.
The meme is applicable to your beliefs as well. Guess correctly in ~100 years of life or be denied paradise for eternity.
It’ll be paradise, but only for those who want to be with Him. If you don’t want to be with Him, why would you want to be with Him for eternity? Everyone has a choice, you can be with God forever or be apart from Him forever. He’d rather you choose to be with Him, but He won’t force you to be with Him. There’s no eternal suffering in hell, it’s just nothingness, eternal separation from God.
He “overrides” free will all the time, like when he commits global genocide by flood because everyone was bad. BTW none of them yet had Jesus to worship for salvation, so I guess they’re just out of luck, huh? Or when god directly murders a person does that give them a free ticket?
He does give children cancer. He created the world, he created all the evil in the world, he created cancer. “No, boo hoo, we are fallen, we ate the fruit,” he created the fruit, he placed us next to the fruit.
Heaven is completely unconscionable. If a child refused to come to an activity one weekend, you’d spitefully refuse to allow that child to attend that activity forever? That’s how a child behaves, not an adult. That’s how god behaves also.
The whole concept is idiotic. It’s clearly fairy tales built on the morals of the era they came from. But because generations of gullible believers have been brainwashing their children we have to deal with it to this day.
Jesus accounts for everybody, including those who lived and died before He came here. That’s what the animal sacrifices were for, they were a symbol of what Jesus was going to do. God didn’t create evil, evil is a natural byproduct of free will. Yes He created us and He created that tree, but we had a choice. When you speed and get a fine, is it your fault (because you did it) or is it the car company’s fault (because they made a car that can go that fast and then sold it to you)? Heaven isn’t just about living forever, it’s mostly about being with God forever, and if you want to be with Him for all eternity, why wouldn’t you want to be with Him now? Hell isn’t a place of eternal suffering, it’s being apart from God forever. Everybody has plenty of time and chances to make that choice, and everybody is judged only by what they can do.
God placed us next to the tree prior to humanity having any knowledge of good or evil. God knew what was going to happen. Would you punish a child and all that child’s descendants for eating candy if you left them next to a bag? Only a psychopath would give out punishments like that.
God created free will therefore god created evil. God is therefore evil. God genocided an entire planet despite murder being evil. God is therefore evil. It’s not complicated and you talking in circular logic and platitudes doesn’t make you correct.
God wants to forgive us, but we need to let Him. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is to intentionally and consistently harden your heart and ignore Him-- how can you be forgiven if you ignore the one who wants to forgive you? If you’re wondering if you’ve done that and wether you can be forgiven, it’s not too late. You can still come back to Him.
I might not be understanding the nuances here, but from what you say even an Unforgivable Sin is “punished” by oblivion in the death-sleep, no?
So I gather then that you don’t really fear hell, although not-hell would be preferable?
I might not be understanding the nuances here, but from what you say even an Unforgivable Sin is “punished” by oblivion in the death-sleep, no?
That’s about it really, just the death-sleep is forever
So I gather then that you don’t really fear hell, although not-hell would be preferable?
I don’t have any need to be afraid of hell, I’m with God. But even then I don’t fear death-- there’s nothing in it for me to be afraid of because if I were to drop dead right now, I’d be dead (death-sleep, but this one’s temporary) and the next thing I’d know would be Him coming back
And if hell is the event at which you aren’t choosing God, why have it in the discourse at all? Or maybe I’m imagining it wrong, as to me it sounds like a waiting room kind of deal, you die, you wait until you make the decision and then you pass on to whatever you chose - rebirth or long sleep (in which case also the next thing to happen would be Him coming back, as either God changes their mind over eternity or you don’t wake up at all).
There is no eternity of suffering, hell is a one-off event and it hasn’t happened yet (I’m a seventh day adventist, we do believe in “hell” but quite differently than most denominations)
As you say, you’re in the minority of Christians in your belief, and that many believe in the literal, eternal suffering, lake of fire kind of hell. Memes kind of have to cater to common denominators, so might then not pertain to you.
We don’t have many adventists where I’m from, would you entertain a theological question from your belief?
What role does Hell play in your denomination? In other Christianities it’s often a deterrent, source of God fear, and an answer to what happens to the out-group (heathens, gentiles, sinners, etc).
If Hell is a “short” event before eternal death-sleep (I googled adventist hell belief, sorry if I’m misunderstanding), it seems like it would be a very mild punishment for cardinal sins/heresy, but maybe you don’t have those?
I know, but it still isn’t Biblical tho
tbh most of the times that I’ve heard it talked about are saying about how it’s a place rather than an event, pretty much what I’ve been saying here. It really is one of two choices: you can choose to be with God forever, or you can be apart from Him forever. He wants to be with you but it’s ultimately your choice.
That’s about it really
God wants to forgive us, but we need to let Him. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is to intentionally and consistently harden your heart and ignore Him-- how can you be forgiven if you ignore the one who wants to forgive you? If you’re wondering if you’ve done that and wether you can be forgiven, it’s not too late. You can still come back to Him.
Feel free to ask questions I don’t mind (I actually kinda enjoy it)
He wants to forgive us?? Then he could do it. He’s all powerful, all knowing after all. What do I have to be forgiven for? Original sin? Give me a break.
How many hoops do you need to jump through to arrive at a christian conclusion? How many times did you have to be told to believe in something unprovable and invisible?
Your fervent beliefs are likely held less strongly than some Hindus, Muslims, Jews, etc. They are ALL sure that you are wrong, just as you they. Can’t you see the futility of pretending to know something unknowable? If you had been born somewhere else, you would perhaps hold completely different views just as strongly.
You blindly place your trust in other humans who are telling you to believe in something utterly impossible. You really think they have translated divine will over millennia? Let alone accurately? If the devil exists, then he lives in the utter hubris of humanity. To think that we can know the unknowable.
Isn’t it convenient that the “devil” is responsible for sowing the seeds of doubt. Isn’t it convenient that no matter what logic and reason you apply, your religion can merely hand-wave and say it isn’t for us to know? Are you satisfied with non-answers and manipulation of your emotions?
You’re being duped. I genuinely hope you can find your way out.
Cheers,
A formerly brainwashed Catholic child
He is omnipotent, he can simply forgive us without our involvement. Or allow forgiveness after death, because death is an arbitrary cutoff. Or provide more obvious evidence he exists instead of giving children cancer.
The meme is applicable to your beliefs as well. Guess correctly in ~100 years of life or be denied paradise for eternity.
He could, but that wouldn’t be consistent with His character. It’d involve Him overriding the free will that He gave us. If you don’t let Him forgive you He won’t.
There’s plenty of evidence. He’s not really hidden, but if you don’t want to find Him there’s a fair chance you won’t. And God doesn’t give kids cancer, this world is broken and fallen. This isn’t how it’s supposed to be.
It’ll be paradise, but only for those who want to be with Him. If you don’t want to be with Him, why would you want to be with Him for eternity? Everyone has a choice, you can be with God forever or be apart from Him forever. He’d rather you choose to be with Him, but He won’t force you to be with Him. There’s no eternal suffering in hell, it’s just nothingness, eternal separation from God.
He “overrides” free will all the time, like when he commits global genocide by flood because everyone was bad. BTW none of them yet had Jesus to worship for salvation, so I guess they’re just out of luck, huh? Or when god directly murders a person does that give them a free ticket?
He does give children cancer. He created the world, he created all the evil in the world, he created cancer. “No, boo hoo, we are fallen, we ate the fruit,” he created the fruit, he placed us next to the fruit.
Heaven is completely unconscionable. If a child refused to come to an activity one weekend, you’d spitefully refuse to allow that child to attend that activity forever? That’s how a child behaves, not an adult. That’s how god behaves also.
The whole concept is idiotic. It’s clearly fairy tales built on the morals of the era they came from. But because generations of gullible believers have been brainwashing their children we have to deal with it to this day.
Jesus accounts for everybody, including those who lived and died before He came here. That’s what the animal sacrifices were for, they were a symbol of what Jesus was going to do. God didn’t create evil, evil is a natural byproduct of free will. Yes He created us and He created that tree, but we had a choice. When you speed and get a fine, is it your fault (because you did it) or is it the car company’s fault (because they made a car that can go that fast and then sold it to you)? Heaven isn’t just about living forever, it’s mostly about being with God forever, and if you want to be with Him for all eternity, why wouldn’t you want to be with Him now? Hell isn’t a place of eternal suffering, it’s being apart from God forever. Everybody has plenty of time and chances to make that choice, and everybody is judged only by what they can do.
God placed us next to the tree prior to humanity having any knowledge of good or evil. God knew what was going to happen. Would you punish a child and all that child’s descendants for eating candy if you left them next to a bag? Only a psychopath would give out punishments like that.
God created free will therefore god created evil. God is therefore evil. God genocided an entire planet despite murder being evil. God is therefore evil. It’s not complicated and you talking in circular logic and platitudes doesn’t make you correct.
Kudos for sharing your side of things here. Even if I don’t agree ;P
It bothers me how many people use the downvote button as a “I disagree” button.
Well that seems to depend on who’s reading it :P
I might not be understanding the nuances here, but from what you say even an Unforgivable Sin is “punished” by oblivion in the death-sleep, no?
So I gather then that you don’t really fear hell, although not-hell would be preferable?
That’s about it really, just the death-sleep is forever
I don’t have any need to be afraid of hell, I’m with God. But even then I don’t fear death-- there’s nothing in it for me to be afraid of because if I were to drop dead right now, I’d be dead (death-sleep, but this one’s temporary) and the next thing I’d know would be Him coming back
In that case, why would anyone fear hell?
And if hell is the event at which you aren’t choosing God, why have it in the discourse at all? Or maybe I’m imagining it wrong, as to me it sounds like a waiting room kind of deal, you die, you wait until you make the decision and then you pass on to whatever you chose - rebirth or long sleep (in which case also the next thing to happen would be Him coming back, as either God changes their mind over eternity or you don’t wake up at all).