Dave Chappelle had the option to live a quiet, wealthy, incredibly comfortable life as essentially the lord of a small Ohio city. He would have been, at the very least, a name that comes up in greatest of all time comedian discussions. Instead he chose this. Dumbass.
Heās a landlord looking to lock up that patch for himself, heās not a humble farmer either heās a cover to cover wanker.
Yeah but he was extremely popular there. These days, yellow springs is a bit embarrassed of him.
Rich people canāt shut the fuck up. Iāve been learning that over the last few years.
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At the risk of saying something negative - no.
I watched the last one twice just to be sure there was subtext and it was pretty astounding the disconnect between article writers, commenters, and the actual comedy.
Did he say āIām team terfā? He did. Yeah he did say that and that was fucked up. Agreed. (In whatever way context could be added, he was discussing the idea that one specific set of internal organs was currently capable of gestating a human. He said the terfs were saying that and he agreed with them on that point but he also discussed NCās bathroom bill and talked at length about how itās a bad law. He also defended trans rights at some length. But the āDave hates transā article writers donāt include those points)
But the other 99.99% of the special was objectively pro-trans. Including āAll trans people deserve love and respectā. The main point is you canāt get what heās doing from text. Standup has a bunch of moving parts: voice, inflection, setup, arc, theme, silliness, parody, jokes-within-jokes, and many other aspects that arenāt available in a text-only format like a comment or an article.
It seemed to me that he was making several really good points about being in a marginalized, oppressed minority, and the way the larger society talks about it. He used language to do that that wasnāt straight-on, direct, and clear because heās a comedian who tells jokes and so his way of doing it is building an elaborate framework around a topic or topics, and by talking about them heās getting across a larger message. Itās densely layered discussion underneath simple stories. Heās really good at it, fwiw, but thatās often immediately ignored and intentionally misrepresented to light him up for whatever the author wants to project.
Iām just saying if you watch his specials with an open mind, heās not anti-trans at all. And whenever it gets down to it, the people accusing him of it havenāt understood his show; often they havenāt watched it at all.
Now Ricky Gervais? Fuck. That guyās seriously anti-trans, ignorant and malicious, and putting Chappelle in with him is just wrong. Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk.
Whatās interesting is that I canāt even take this comment at face value, without further context. Is this a well-thought observation from the POV of a trans person who is intimately aware of their struggle in a broader context? Does this commenter understand the nature of comedy, or more specifically, Dave Chappelle, more deeply than I do? Can I add my opinion to this heated subject being a CIS male who is also a minority? Does any of the aforementioned even matter?
What I can say is that Iāve liked certain parts of his comedy. When it hits itās incredible. When it doesnāt I feel like Iām watching 80s Eddie Murphy again.
While I believe that anyone and anything is fair game in comedy, I donāt believe that how heās done it towards trans people has been in pursuit of comedy. In his previous specials it came across as shallow othering without the nuance that comes from actually seeing the subject as human. Thereās no payoff.
It just reminds me of my upbringing where gay (and queer) bashing for the sake of itself was normal. At this point in my life Iād rather continue distancing myself from that stuff than try to read between the lines.
Edit: to the OP, Iām not attacking your observation or character.
And whenever it gets down to it, the people accusing him of it havenāt understood his show
How do you interpret this joke from his new show?
Letās begin with the joke that got us going in āThe Dreamer.ā The late Norm MacDonald, we are told, had invited Chappelle to the filming of the movie āMan in the Moon,ā in which Jim Carrey played cryptic comedy icon Andy Kaufman. To Chappelleās dismay, Carrey remained steadfastly in character while on set.
Chappelle sighs, āI was very disappointed because I wanted to meet Jim Carrey and I had to pretend he was Andy Kaufman all afternoon. It was clearly Jim Carrey. I could look at him and clearly see it was Jim Carrey.ā Which brings us to the punchline: āThatās how trans people make me feel.ā
Because the only way I can read it is that heās saying trans people are inauthentic and fake, that they are pretending to be something they arenāt. But maybe we just arenāt as clever as you are and donāt understand it. Right? Or maybe you just donāt want to admit your favorite comic is a piece of shit.
But maybe we just arenāt as clever as you are and donāt understand it. Right? Or maybe you just donāt want to admit your favorite comic is a piece of shit
So, to be clear, you never actually wanted anyone to try and explain their interpretation of the bit?
Imagine jumping to the defence of this guy š¤Æš¤®
He then addressed the controversy surrounding his anti-trans material, saying, āIf you guys came here to this show tonight thinking that Iām going to make fun of those people again, youāve come to the wrong show. Iām not fucking with those people anymore. It wasnāt worth the trouble. I aināt saying shit about them. Maybe three or four times tonight, but thatās it. Iām tired of talking about them. And you want to know why Iām tired of talking about them? Because these people acted like I needed them to be funny. Well, thatās ridiculous. I donāt need you. I got a whole new angle coming. You guys will never see this shit coming. I aināt doing trans jokes no more.ā
He then said he was going to transition to joking about āhandicappedā people instead because ātheyāre not as organized as the gays. And I love punching down.ā
A few minutes later, Chappelle revisited the topic, saying, āTo be honest with you, Iāve been trying to repair my relationship with the transgender community cause I donāt want them to think that I donāt like them. You know how Iāve been repairing it? I wrote a play. I did. Cause I know that gays love plays. Itās a very sad play, but itās moving. Itās about a Black transgender woman whose pronoun is, sadly, n***a. Itās a tear-jerker. At the end of the play she dies of loneliness cause white liberals donāt know how to speak to her. Itās sad.āThis joke is fucking hilarious
This just comes off as whiny. āIām getting cancelled again by being given another special, boo hoo.ā
And then uses literally the āone jokeā conservatives have about pronouns. Thereās nothing funny or creative about that joke. Itās been told a billion times by conservative talking heads.
Thereās an entire subreddit dedicated to it. r/onejoke
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I mean, āshe died of lonliness because liberals canāt say the n wordā is pretty funny. And being offended about the pronoun joke but not the nword is also his point, I think.
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And heās a fucking genius. Because, as far as I can tell, all of his trans jokes are really funny or nuanced. But his handicap jokes, some of them are just downright lame and insulting.
And everyoneās coming after him for his trans jokes, not his handicap jokes.
You canāt punch down on transpeople, their propaganda reach is massive. People are AFRAID to say the littlest bit negative about them.
Thatās why the handicap jokes. He wanted to show what actually happens when you punch down: nothing. No one gives a shit.
Anyway, thatās my headcanon. Otherwise, some of these handicap jokes are completely inexcusable and donāt live up to the standard set by his trans jokes.
Youāre the exact person theyāre talking about when they say youāre completely ignoring all nuance just to be offended
Did you watch him say that or just read it and imagine his tone?
Haha itās actually pretty good!
I love punching down.
That is a great punchline. Heās not saying that he - Dave Chapelle loves punching down. Heās saying: āI am a bigot said John.ā
You need to grow up.
Dave fell off. Iāll always remember his older stuff fondly, but his ācomebackā stuff is boring.
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I think I agree*
*with a caveat. I watched his previous special as well to understand what people were saying. What Chappelle said in that special would not be problematic if said to a smaller audience. But a stand-up special to large audience, recorded to be put on Netlfix is not the stage to say where he said what he said: where it can be taken out of context easily and used in support of anti-trans arguments.
Maybe Iāve been looking in the wrong places but I have not seen nearly enough discussion of the idea that itās okay to say things that are iffy in confined spaces, especially for the sake of discussion. The relationship between gender and biology, and then the relationship between biology and society, and then the relationship between gender and society are extremely complex concepts around which open discussion should be not just allowed, but encouraged. However, that encouragement should be limited to conversations with a limited audience, not ones broadcast to an untold number of people. Broadcast messaging should not reinforce harmful stereotypes and echo negative statements about people, especially marginalized people.
Apologist gonna apologize.
Well put, far better than if I had tried. I do wish he wasnāt using his platform this way but I canāt help but feel itās misrepresented. I watched the first part of this special for context and a lot is lost just reading the plain text without his delivery.
If you think he shouldnāt be joking about it at all then that fine, but I think anything can be joked about and heās trying way better than anyone else making jokes on the topic.
And I hesitated to express that because I truly to do think Iām a good ally and I definitely want to be.
Edit: I understand Iām not owed an explanation, but sometimes I do wish people would tell me why they downvoted. Iām open to being wrong and learning from it.
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No one will agree with you even though youāre right.
Remember when he was funny?
I used to love Chappelle. These past couple years donāt offend me, they just bore the fuck out of me. Which is not what I look for in entertainment.
Iām absolutely fine with trans jokes or dead baby jokes or literally anything, just make sure and not to forget the joke part
Yeah, these arenāt even jokes, more like some weirdass gross power fantasy.
āGod forbid I ever go to jail. But if I do, I hope itās in California. Soon as the judge sentences me, Iāll be like, āBefore you sentence me, I want the court to know I identify as a woman. Send me to a womanās jail.ā As soon I get in there, you know what Iāmma be doing. āGive me your fruit cocktail, bitch, before I knock your motherfucking teeth out. Iām a girl, just like you, bitch. Come here and suck this girl dick I got. Donāt make me explain myself. Iām a girl.'ā
I am trans, and itās hard to not take the insults personally, especially since this āedgy comedyā is coming from a comedian I used to admire and respect. What the fuck, Dave?
I canāt believe thatās a real joke he toldāthatās not even a joke. I honestly havenāt watched any of his polemic ones because I just didnāt care to watch his standup anymore. When he lost his bright, loose energy he used to have during performances, I just wasnāt interested anymore. And now this is how far one of the previous greats has fallen?
Itās a classic. Rape! Ha ha ha. Amirite? It takes true genius to think that up. /s.
I had no clue his act was that pathetic.
You have to be just the ultimate asshole to think this is funny. When he did the equivalent of āmy best friend is transā qualifier on stage, the rabbit hole he went down became pretty obvious. Heās so talented that he doesnāt have a single person who can give him feedback. I guarantee you heās surrounded by yes men and other comedians who are too chicken shit to say anything. Money and power corrupt always.
Itās like a ricky gervais joke without the irony. What we have here is a guy with a grudge. He got cut; now heās lashing out. Iām pretty sure jo rowling did the same thing.
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Thatās just the recycled joke every conservative talking head has told. Itās not even creative.
Same joke about bathrooms or sports. āIāll just tell them Iām a woman, hurr durr.ā
Get new material if youāre going to try to be edgy, Dave.
Thatās the type of joke someoneās uncle would make in the bar after a few too many, or the one you think of and know better than to vocalize itā¦ because it isnāt really funny.
Louis CK can jokes about pedos and yet it is hilarious and generally well-received. This joke gives strong āI identify as an attack helicopterā energy. It is not funny, and heās basically just repeating the shitty talking points of right-wing pundits, and without sarcasm. It is humour-by-applause, it is not meant to be a satirical joke, but to have people who agree applause and cheers.
Iāve thought for quite some time thereās fertile ground for jokes about the trans experience, but they really need to be told by people who have lived that experience. There is something cosmically funny about being born into one body and feeling it is the wrong one.
why do you think only people who have been trans should be making trans jokes?
In general it takes a level of skill to tell a joke about a marginalized group without punching down that is exceptionally rare. For example, I can think of one or two male comedians who have told rape jokes that did not make rape victims the butt of the joke. If a trans person tells a joke about the trans experience and fucks it up, other trans people wonāt feel like a cis person is just adding to the atmosphere of hate toward them.
I think it definitely needs to be done tactfully and without hate, but joking about one another is an important part of being included and feeling like we all belong together.
My philosophy of comedy is that you can joke about any tragedy you want, but make it absolutely fucking crystal clear that you are on the victimās side. Plus, punching up is always funnier than punching down.
Yeah, I gave his most recent specials a shot, but itās mostly just him ranting about his various beefs, which isnāt good comedy.
Like, there are a handful of decent jokes, but the pacing sucks because he wants to air out all this dirty laundry in between.
At least Lenny had some actual real beefs to whine about.
First content I watched of him was a special on Netflix years ago, and I just couldnāt finish it. Nothing he said punched or was structured as a joke. It really felt he was just having boring discussions with himself.
Yeah the Chappelle show, then he came back convinced he was both special and a victim.
My grandfather this, rich people in a room that, being black in America is the same as going to war. He is a prick without nuance.
You mean when he had a banger of a co-writer š
Remember Chappelleās short standup after George Floyd was murdered where he was incredibly outraged and emotional? Now heās aligning himself with people who think George Floyd deserved getting murdered. Chappelle is an ignorant tool
Itās incredible how being rich has separated him from the racial struggle he has highlighted throughout his career.
Like even if privately he thought trans people are a joke, old Chappellee mightāve seen trans persecution for what it is: kindling for the fire to burn away the rights of other minorities. He mightāve been an ally just for tactical purposes.
But he is rich now. He feels safe enough that invalidating the experience of other people would never lead to the invalidation of his own, and even if he does, he can escape with his wealth.
Igniting racial flames is loved by the people in power. But itās touching that class issue that transcends race where the problem lies. Because we far outnumber the rich. We forget that when weāre only looking at the skin color of everyone else in our class. Such a shame Dave became a tool for those fuckers when he became one of them.
He was pointing out social issues and racism and its stereotypes .
Now heās just denying the existence of a minority.
Let him. Let him find out that the far right have their own, stricter limitations on what they consider acceptable for comedy.
We donāt have to forgive him for mocking trans people after heās fucked around and found out.
Heās in for a hell of a surprise, because he thinks heās in the club.
And I say that with the most love and someone thatās watched all but the latest special.
I saw it, first 30 minutes are lazy jokes about trans people and disabled people in wheel chairs.
The ending story is about being a dreamer and how life can change you. Mainly in the style of a TED talk, then doing a flip calling lil nas X super gay dreamer joke.
Curtain closes.
Thatās the special. Saved you an hour.
I havenāt watched any comedianās special in 5 years because even then they were shitty bad take ted talks. Good to see that hasnāt changed.
You know, they always say the loudest people have the most to hide.
Take a look at Alex Jones lmfao.
Ugh, I discontinued/stopped supporting Netflix when they first started releasing this kind of rhetoric. Sad to see I made the right call :(
Heās found his target audience. Bigots with money.
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Cancelled my Netflix today
Lol
This dude is lame. None of this stuff offends me. Itās not like I havenāt heard these types of jokes before. Itās just unimaginative. Itās like heās trying to take the easy route trying to pick off low hanging fruit, but the issue is the jokes arenāt even funny. Itās just lame.
His problem is he isnāt putting any effort into his comedy. He reminds me of the dumb kid in class who is desperate for attention so they spout off dumb shit in attempt to gain a few laughs, but it instead just comes off as idiotic instead of genuinely funny.
all cowards love punching downā¦ itās what they live forā¦ their hands go all clammy when they see someone biggerā¦ so they try their best to ingratiate themselves to the big, scary peopleā¦ lick their boots, that kind of thingā¦
Moreover, all assholes love punching.
satirists punch at powerful people all the timeā¦ the powerful people generally think satirists are all assholesā¦
You mean individuals or corporate entities or political parties? Satire in that regard is weaponised, it doesnāt - or shouldnāt - go for all comedy, where āpunchingā isnāt the goal. Unlike this thing which is just a big āfuck offā dressed up as a stand-up show.
Washed up and out of material
I get what heās doing. from his perspective, itās like as long as the public (three dudes with a shitter account) is pearl-clutching over something Iāve said as a hyperbole, Iāll keep banging this drum and upping the volume and Iāll keep doing it in every special. problem one is, heās grown tone-deaf and canāt connect to normal people no more.
problemo dos is, his standup is shit and has been for years. from the fucking faked raspy voice then the cigarette on stage because he totally canāt make it without one, like dude youāre so rebel! to the the faked āOMG I collapsed laughing at my own shitā and then audibly banging the mic so it accentuates the non-existing punch line every couple minutes, itās super annoying.
like CK jokes about equally deranged topics, but the craft is there and itās flawless. every movement, every breath, every stutter is in the service of deliveryā¦ billy removed-tits as well, canāt agree with much of the stuff heās on about, since he portrays a super exaggerated persona, but the craft is flawless.
this dude better get off his lazy ass and start practicing in front of live audiences and start embracing the sucking and bombing if he ever wants to be considered great. only then can we start dissecting the ājokesā.
billy removed-tits as well,
the removed part is something he calls himself, wasnāt my stab at him
Imagine being such a greedy and wilfully ignorant motherfucker that you donāt only, as a member of a marginalised group, openly punch down at other marginalised people, but going full mask off and admitting that youāll be targeting the next group because weāre even more vulnerable.
What a pathetic bootlicking shitstain.
Of course heās gonna keep doing it, it keeps his big, egotistic head in the news. Without being an irredeemable fuck heād fade away.
