People always seem shocked when I’m offended by terms like “I hate men”.
Like it’s somehow wrong of me to be offended by blatant misandry because I should just “know what they mean”. I’m one of “the good ones, they don’t mean me when they say it”. Horseshit.
I remember something similar to this when my mom died 15 years ago. Lots of aunt’s and friends reaching out to my sister to support her, traveling across the country to visit. I don’t think I ever even got a note.
But I do have the thing where I probably wouldn’t have cared either, if not for watching the support my sister got, it never would have occurred to me someone could do those things. And I know those people aren’t my actual friends, so I really had zero expectations from them. I think it was more the insult on top of injury that bothered me. “Not only do we not care, but we’re going to show you what we would be doing if we did care.”
I never took this as a boy/girl thing though. I never fit in in life, still to this day. Just sorta expected.
I just watched Netflix anime ‘Blue Eye Samurai.’ Highly recommended. There’s a scene where a princess is talking to the madam of a notorious bordello that specializes in the unusual. The madam goes on and on about how weak and fragile men are, how they need their egos massaged and need to feel supported.
After reading the post, I realized that this is a pretty common trope in fiction; sex workers talking about how most of their clients are only there because they need something that their jobs/families/communities deny them.
Just a thought.
Even in Japanese love hotels, I’ve heard it’s common for men to book someone and just…cuddle for a while. Fall asleep being held. I don’t have to live it to believe it.
It’s not just a thing in fiction either; I’ve seen plenty of threads and discussions over the years where real-life sex workers have essentially been saying the same thing. A lot of men are lonely.
“Men are victims of the patriarchy too” is an incredibly powerful message that I wish more men understood.
Most feminists don’t even acknowledge this. Or they say even if men are victims, they deserve it for participating in the patriarchy.
As a staunch feminist whose friends are all feminists, I have never heard a single one say—or even imply—anything like that. I very much know how extremely painful it is to have your feelings ignored and invalidated, so garbage like that is a dealbreaker.
If you’re hearing this claim from people irl, they’re saying it because they’re shitty people… not because they call themselves “feminists”.
I hate this way of putting it, especially because it puts the blame on a single gender. It’s not JUST men who shoehorn people into gender roles, we all do it.
It’s off putting to me and I tend to dismiss the entire thing because it basically says that men being bad also hurts men. Had it said that men also are victims of gender roles I would immediately agree, and I can’t imagine that I’m the only one who feels this way.
That’s why it’s so important to specify that men are victims of patriarchy, not victims of men. Everyone, regardless of gender, has an environmental tendency to reinforce the societal structure that we label “Patriarchy”, as you say (and I/many agree), but there’s far more to it than the idea of “men first women second”. The idea behind the phrase is not “everyone vs. men” but rather “everyone vs. harmful but deeply engrained social construct”.
Then why use the label “Patriarchy”? It has a very specific meaning that I don’t feel applies to many western societies and definitely not to the sociatal structure and norms that we happen to live in, regardless of who is in charge. I think we agree on everything but the term.
Because it still puts men on top in most ways, even while it hurts them too.
And it definitely applies to all western societies.
You can see it in this very story. “Men are strong, they don’t need help. Women are weak and emotional, that’s why they need support.” Yeah, it’s devastating for men in this situation, but it’s the same logic which makes people say men are natural leaders or whatever.
Don’t forget that leadership is not a cakewalk either; it comes with responsibility and sacrifice. It is a burden as are most ‘advantages’ that men ‘enjoy’.
Ah, fuck it. We’re supposed to suffer in silence. We’re men. Man up, guys! Grit your teeth and bear it! (/s)
No one checks on me and that’s fine. I don’t really need people to check on me like I’m fragile. I fight my own battles; always have, always will. But for those who do need the more frequent check-ins, they should absolutely have them and should be able to ask for them without fear of ridicule or mockery.
The fact that, statistically speaking, no one cares about lonely folk is pretty discouraging, but you can’t force people to care. And even if you could, it wouldn’t be worthwhile or heartfelt. I sure as hell don’t want people to feel like they have to give a shit.
Stay strong, gents. It’s not weak to ask for help if you need it, even from internet strangers.
I wish my dad would reach out and talk with someone about issues. My sister died last year and he decided he didn’t want to talk to his good friend about it because his friend still has two daughters and won’t know what it is like.
He doesn’t have anyone to talk to except for me and my mom, he won’t do therapy to get through his guilt of surviving cancer while she didn’t survive it which if he went to therapy he would realize is ridiculous to have because they were different cancers.
My mom at least is going through therapy which is helping her get through the loss.
The second poster’s story so clearly shows why a man’s partner being their only emotional support is devastating to both people in the relationship, yet this idea is still so insidiously pervasive in our society. No one wins.
I am seeing a lot of pushback–presumably from feminists–towards men that are expressing their experiences.
Guys it’s okay to cry.
It’s ok to have emotions.
It’s ok to not be ok.
…But that has not been my experience.
Should it be? Yes, absolutely. But is it now? No. And unfortunately, in my experience, the women that are saying such things–almost always self-identifying feminists–are also often then ones that are unaccepting of any display of emotion in men that aren’t coming from a place of strength. Men are e.g., expected to shrug off grief and depression and go back to work the day after a funeral. I shan’t be too specific for risk of doxxing myself, but I’ve noted that I’m expected to muscle through physical pain and mental exhaustion, while none of my partners–either current or former–will hold themselves to the same standard that I am held to by them.
I cynically think that many self-identifying feminists don’t want to abolish patriarchy, they just want to be able to benefit from it the same way that men do, without paying any of the costs for that benefit that men shoulder.
I’ve had similar experiences and when I’ve shared this previously all the response I got was “well date better people” as if I have a line of women waiting for their chance with me to select from.
I used to be all feminism when I was younger. Now I have two kids, I realized man do a sht ton of things without being recognized. It’s always that “you are the man, you are supposed to do it” kind of thing. But when it’s the other way around like when I asked the ladies what about their “women duties”, it’s all excuse and argument. It can suck balls being a responsible man.
You can be both a feminist and recognize that men have major struggles too, they’re not mutually exclusive
Also, isn’t that still under the umbrella of feminism? Feminism isn’t “only women rule”. Recognizing gender stereotypes affecting men’s mental health sounds very much like a feminist thing.
Feminism isn’t “only women rule”.
Nowadays this seems to really be the case. Not only do “only women rule”, it becomes “men suck” as well. See the recent “I hate all men” thing, as an example. There’s some people who say it as a joke, but there are tons who actually believe it, and worse, act on it.
Egalitarianism > all other isms. Except autism. autism trumps all.
Well, yes, but they’re still not mutually exclusive. For example, I like apples but I also like other fruits as well. Me liking all fruits doesn’t override my liking of apples.
Friends?
My best friend of 15 years told me, when I had a rough patch, that he’s there for me just reach out but unless I initiate he would treat any interaction as just a normal day.
Throughout the rough patch I choose not to speak of it and just treated our hang outs as a chance to get away. He choose to support me in the only way he knew how and the only way he was comfortable with. I was not comfortable and didn’t know how to ask for more support. It’s about 7 years from then and my parents still don’t know, I just don’t know how to ask for and engage with emotional support. I am completely weirded out by the concept of talking about my emotions and somebody else caring, it gives me a high level of anxiety.
TLDR: small male friend groups with limited experience providing or receiving emotional support are unlikely to provide explicit emotional support and there’s a good chance if you’re a man who needs it you don’t know how to ask
