“We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.”
That’s gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I’ve heard in a while.
The guy running against Biden has far worse policies with regard to Muslims. If that guy wins it “proves” America wants the worse policies, potentially causing Democrats to switch to those policies to try to win.
Luckily, this is a publicity stunt that I don’t foresee changing any actual votes.
Rationally, you have a valid point.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Lesser of two evils only works when the distinction is clear to everyone.
Biden needs to separate himself from Israeli genocidal politics, and it seems his cabinet is trying to shift.
So in conclusion, you might consider this a publicity stunt. And maybe it is. But recent elections have shown that you can’t ignore your base, you need to fire them up to really turn them out.
So this is definitely a good move.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Trump provided military assistance, approved arms sales, and personally vetoed a bill to end US military assistance to the Saudis in Yemen which is considered a genocide as well.
And his Israel “peace plan” was literally just giving the Israelis everything they wanted so if you’re giving him credit for Israel/Palestine actions you’re literally just giving him credit for not being the president when this happened. He absolutely would have been worse for Palestinians, he just didn’t have the power at the time.
If Biden’s stance on Israel is driving away voters, that’s just normal. This is one of those important polarizing issues, and he can’t avoid accountability, for good or bad. The death count and coverage has guaranteed that.
As for “America wants” language, that doesn’t mean anything. Different people have different goals.
Who are Zionists actually voting for? If it’s not the Democratic party, then why would he continue to be pro-Israel? Whom is he pandering to with that stance?
There are many reasons politicians might be pro war. The military industrial complex is too powerful, among other things.
for “America wants” language, that doesn’t mean anything. Different people have different goals.
Sure, it’s shorthand, but the idea is that the Democratic Party might nominate a presidential candidate who has harsher views about Muslims and Palestine, if they see those views being the reason they lost, or among the reasons they lost.
They would see that they had the “better” policies and still didn’t get the votes from the people who care most passionately about them, so their approach did not work. Maybe they go closer to the protesters view to try to get their votes, or maybe they give up on the protesters as a voting bloc since they couldn’t even get their vote when they had the “better” policies. That would entail going further away from the protesters views.
Either could happen, I don’t know the polling, but my point is that it isn’t just “we will take 4 years of Trump to make our point and make Democrats listen,” they may be taking 4 years of Trump and then proving that no one should align their policy views with theirs going forward because it hurts more than it helps.
If they succeed in electing Trump, Democrats won’t need to reflect about anything because they won’t be allowed to run for office anymore.
This is exactly what I thought when I read that. What kind of “recalibrating” do they think they’re going to get to do with a christian fascist lording over the country?
I can’t help but have conspiracy theory thoughts, like this is some kind of conservative campaign. It’s hard to rule anything out anymore, and the idea of muslims voting for trump is just that fucking stupid.
Or you could actually hear them out rather than discredit them. Biden is killing their families in mass right now. You want them to think about how Trump might hurt them later? Which is actually happening now? Does making Biden think he will win encourage him to stop participating in the war crimes that he’s being referred to the ICC for?
This is how democracies die.
But the Anti-Biden folks will be able to tell the next generation that they “stood up for their own ideals!” Sure, they won’t have prevented any genocide, and they will have put the party into power that is currently trying to set up a fascist theocracy, but they can go to sleep knowing they have personal integrity!
/s
The other side of this being someone saying “we’re not going to legislate anything that will help you, and fuck you for asking, but vote for us because we won’t actively genocide you” which is not really a great selling point but yeah at least we’re avoiding the worse stuff.
It’s a bit ironic that it’s always “Vote for Democrats or democracy dies” when that setup is inherently undemocratic, since your vote can’t go anywhere but the single choice that lets you still have a vote
It’s a sucky system, for sure, but we have zero chance to fix it by sprinting towards Fascism.
And perhaps it’s ultimately a lost cause, but given the demographic shift of Millennials and Gen Z, I think it’s far from a foregone conclusion.
Please go look up the political compass. Both parties are fascist.
Yeah, sorry. You’re going to have to give me a source for that claim.
It’s this dumbass forum of 14 year olds called /politicalcompass where a bunch of high schoolers with no life experience try to discuss complex issues through the lens of a four-sided charicature of political ideologies that they call the political compass. It’s total horseshit and the meme has been coopted by actual fascists.
I actually found one source (might have been the same place), and it “analyzes” Biden and Trump from 2020 based on their past policy stances and public statements; it shows Biden and Trump practically overlapping. This is based on some 62 questions they ask community members.
If someone honestly thinks that’s a reasonable analysis of past and especially current stances, I weep for the state of skepticism and rational thought.
As a sidenote, if we look at the polling data the way it should be seen, it’s interesting that those people are so far left that they feel like Biden and Trump are overlapping.
Pro-Trump muslims. That’s just great. So Trump gets voted in and instead of having a president ask IDF to spare as many civilians as they can, there will be a president who asks IDF to kill as many muslims as they can. While openly assassinating Iranian generals with precision missile strikes.
In the little exerpt included in with the submission, a spokesman makes it clear that they would be worse off in the short run if trump gets elected, but they are thinking long term.
And this comment is implying they are pro trump…and it’s the highest voted comment? What’s going on here?
We live in a two party system. If you form a coalition to make Biden lose, then you’re making Trump win. They’re pro-Trump because they’re helping Trump. What’s going on is a fascist takeover of our country. We aren’t giving slack to anyone who enables fascism. The fascists will kill more people not less. This is bad short term thinking and bad long term thinking. The reward for helping fascists is death.
I agree with you it’s a dumb move. But dear God, they’re literally telling you, almost explicitly, that they don’t support the trump (basically supporting noone in the up coming election) and you’re still desperately torturing logic and twisting words to deny it. Is it really so hard for you to accept reality? Is it really so hard for you to accept that things are not so black and white?
It is that black and white. We live in a two party system, that’s reality. It’s not twisting words, it’s math. If one candidate doesn’t win, the other candidate does. Republicans are overrepresented by the electoral college, not voting helps them win. The support may be inadvertent, but it’s still support. They can say they don’t support Trump all they want. If they don’t vote for Biden, they are supporting Trump.
The support may be inadvertent, but it’s still support.
Using this tortured logic, if one doesn’t move to a swing state, even if they support and vote for Biden, their non action inadvertently helps trump get elected, so they actually support Trump.
It’s painfully dumb.
Republicans typically represent rural communities with low populations and high surface area. The electoral college votes are allocated to states based on the number of senators and representatives. Both of these are in turn skewed in favor of Republicans as each state gets two senators no matter what and the total number of house seats is capped at 435. Since neither chamber is properly apportioned by population, Republicans are overrepresented in both chambers.
Using this tortured logic, if one doesn’t move to a swing state, even if they support and vote for Biden, their non action inadvertently helps trump get elected, so they actually support Trump.
No one knows for sure which states are swing states until it’s too late. Remember the blue wall in 2016? Not enough democrat voters showed up and what were supposedly blue states went to Trump.
If a person doesn’t vote in an election then they are helping Republicans. If a person doesn’t vote for Biden then they are helping Trump.
A person doesn’t have to declare their undying loyalty to a candidate in order to support them. Making the other guy lose the election is sufficient. Your argument is splitting hairs.
No one knows for sure which states are swing states until it’s too late. Remember the blue wall in 2016? Not enough democrat voters showed up and what were supposedly blue states went to Trump.
Trump didn’t win any blue states, he won most of the swing states. And we also knew these were the close states, and we know which states are likely to be close again. This idea that “well, we plumb just don’t know what will be close states” is pretty much nonsense.
This is a dumb argument used to totally miss the point.
If a person doesn’t vote in an election then they are helping Republicans.
What if that person had voted, they would have voted for Trump? That voter is now hurting Trump’s chances, but according to this big-brain logic, that voter is actually helping Trump! lol.
And a person who doesn’t vote in a swing state is also helping Trump, despite the fact that they might have even voted for Biden. So, again, according to your logic, you can support and vote for Biden and still be a Trump supporter.
Your argument is splitting hairs.
You literally just argued “well, we don’t know for sure which are going to be swing states!” in an attempt to take down my point, and you’re accusing me of splitting hairs by pointing out that not supporting Biden does not mean you support Trump. Holy shit, this is hilarious. Do you even think about what you write down?
We hope that shooting ourselves in the foot today will allow us to run faster in the years to come…
Expecting either US political party to drop its support for Israel is a fool’s game.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel? I understand this is a no win situation but given the choice who’s going to be better for Muslims domestically or abroad? Clearly the dem. And on that point I wonder if they think trump would have behaved any differently toward Israel? Spoiler alert.
They have a point though, neither d nor r is going to be “good” for Muslims or Palestinians, our track record sorta proves that out.
I see this kind of thinking often, with regards to young voters, black voters, blue collar workers, immigrants, women, etc.
‘We’ve checked with the experts and determined that they should be grateful! Why won’t they adjust their lived experience to match our policy platform!!’
It doesn’t matter whether you agree with them. They’re leveraging power. You are free to disregard them if you think your personal narratives are enough to keep you comfort after Trump wins.
If Biden and his supporters want to win, they need to stop arguing with their voters and start listening. It’s not that complicated.
This implies their voters are speaking in a unified voice. They’re not. Subsets are, closer to it, but overall, politics is about compromise and consensus.
If you want the power of dominion, go for a monarchy, and if you don’t want to compromise at all, go to war. When it comes time for peace again, it’ll be some manner of compromise.
Because in bizarro world a ban is worse than ethnic cleansing.
Ban + more ethnic cleansing > no ban + less ethnic cleansing
It’s utterly disingenuous to suggest the two are mutually exclusive. The ethnic cleaning only intensifies under Trump, and the ban is in addition to that. Unless we’re in a bizarre world where Trump suddenly loves brown people and Palestinians.
Speculating while ignoring genocide. BlueMAGA is toxic as fuck
Gee I wonder why you guys have practically no meaningful political presence in reality. Maybe if you tell me more about how much I love genocide, I’ll see the purity in your idealistic views and decide to support your cause instead.
Of course, I could fire back that you want dead Palestinian babies since you refuse to go against the most deadly option – but that would be as utterly disingenuous as writing off all Biden supporters as genocide supporters.
The funniest thing about this comment is that it could be easily directed at you as well.
Biden allowing their death is the most deadly option. Do you people even hear yourself? I couldn’t give a fuck if you support us or not, which is preferred since liberals tend to co-opt movements and try to redirect the energy to neoliberalism.
Personally I think a Republican actively killing them would be the most deadly option. I’m curious though why you think Biden would result in more Palestinian deaths than any Republican candidate.
For all those castigating them for not supporting Biden: imagine the issue is abortion, and the Democrats are upholding a bipartisan anti-abortion consensus, the only difference being they feel bad about it sometimes. Would you still be blasting the women’s rights activists trying to raise a stink, and tell them to shut up because the alternative is worse?
Everyone in the comments focusing on literally only this election and ignoring what they said in their reasoning.
Yes they understand if Trump wins it will be worse in the next 4 years. They’re hoping that the democrats realize that putting a candidate just slightly less evil isn’t good enough anymore and they actually need to win votes instead of saying “we support marginally less genocide then the republicans” and that being good enough.
Not saying that’s going to fully work out, but people acting likes that’s crazy aren’t seeing the full picture. At a certain point the democratic establishment needs to be punished for its bullshit lesser of two evils otherwise it’ll continue to do it. Is now the best time? Maybe not but thats a much more in depth analysis than just reacting “oh they must love Trump then!?”
Punishing the lesser of two evils by rewarding the greater evil isn’t going to lead in the direction you want it to.
Again they understand that for the next 4 years, the thought is after that
Yes, because that worked out so well last time a block of Dems threw a fit and decided not to vote. The party definitely learned a lesson and would never do something like 2016 again, right?
It literally is crazy. It’s psychotic to think that the party would change their mind about the system that holds them in power after another 4 years of Trump, assuming we even get to have a real election again at all. Project 2025 anyone? It’s psychotic to think that all the harm that will come from another 4 years of Trump, now with a grudge, nothing left to lose, and a playbook of how to not be stopped is somehow worth the hope that Dems will change their mind. You know what made the party pick Biden in 2020? The four years of hell before it. You know what will guarantee a “moderate” Dem as the only option in perpetuity? Another 4 years of Trump. Allowing him to win doesn’t move the party left, it moves them right to try and get people who actually fucking vote from the middle to move over. The closest we ever came to an actually left president was after 8 years of a moderate Dem.
I mean has going with the status quo worked for 50+ years (in the specific case of Palestine)? Clearly not? So makes sense they would try something else.
Just because the dems decide not to learn the actual lesson in 2016 means we should just eat shit forever?
